Uhh, I think I need help.

Search redtailboa for "toxic rats". I can link from my phone or see any signatures to get to the blog entry.

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Originally Posted by WifeOfSlasher

Search redtailboa for "toxic rats". I can link from my phone or see any signatures to get to the blog entry.

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Don't bother. It's a recent thread and has nothing to do with "toxins" but the supposed inability of certain boas to handle the supposed elevated fat content in certain rats. It's not the first time someone has mentioned "toxic rat syndrome". Nor that certain snakes like hypos or bccs are more susceptible. That people who are proponents of that "syndrome" also specifically go out of their way to claim that it affects boas only, and that pythons are not affected. It has never been proven and is at best, anecdotal.

What I've never seen is a link to where it has ever been proven. I've seen a bunch of ASSumptions regarding how boas somehow cannot handle the higher fat content of some lines of rats and this in turn leads to an overbloom of bacteria in the gut which leads to sepsis and death.

The OP is having issues with snakes that are not boas, which was preceded by his boa going off feed for an extended period of time. While toxic rat syndrome has never been proven, it is a misnomer at best. If has little to do with toxins and everything to do with fat content. None of it proven and all purported to affect only certain strains of boa. The OP has had his pythons die - not his boa.

Take the snake to a vet and have it examined by a qualified herp vet. If it dies before you can do that, have it necropsied.

There are some species of snake that have been PROVEN to have issues digesting mammalian lipids. These are long term cumulative issues that ultimately lead to a form of gastritis. They are not one and done feedings that result in an almost immediate death.

I would be hard pressed to not believe that these instances are connected directly to the food. Even if it's all a bunch of ASSumptions I will not be buying from cheap frozen distributors. Not worth the risk for our boa or ball.

Op... I hope your boa turns around. I would get to a good herp vet today.

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Originally Posted by WifeOfSlasher

I would be hard pressed to not believe that these instances are connected directly to the food. Even if it's all a bunch of ASSumptions I will not be buying from cheap frozen distributors. Not worth the risk for our boa or ball.

Op... I hope your boa turns around. I would get to a good herp vet today.

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Then you didn't read the thread thoroughly - but that was a hard thread to wade through. It took me awhile to read the salient points. A couple of people rebutted the ASSumed diagnosis fairly well, but it all got lost in the shuffle. But even before that thread ran it's course, this issue had come up several times.

Bottom line - it has nothing to do with "cheap" food - it never did. It is purported to be a link between fat content and the inability of some boas to digest it. It has nothing to do with pythons and nothing to do with the rats being "toxic" - that's a blatant misnomer.

The problem with reptile keepers in general is that we tend to not take our animals to vets when they get sick and rarely seek answers when they die. Then we tend to make ASSumptions as to the cause. Early reports of IBD in ball pythons were overblow this way - and most of these early cases were never necropsied. The ones that were later necropsied were found to be from other causes.

The situation with "toxic" rat syndrome is a perfect example. While high levels of bacteria and sepsis were purportedly found in the gut, none of these were ever positively correlated to the fat content in the rats and the "syndrome" has never been identified in pythons. In fact, pythons are often excluded from being candidates for toxic rat syndrome.

There are numerous species of snakes that have issues digesting mammalian lipids and over time, will have often fatal bouts of bacterial gastritis. What separates this actual issue with the one reported in boas is that keepers of other species have positively identified this inability to correctly digest these fats and cholesterols and the ensuing infections.

In "toxic" rat sydrome, a lot of vague assumption and anecdotal data has been drawn, ie: some locality boas, or BCCs being more prone or hypos, etc, etc. No one has ever ruled out more common and more probable causes.

Believe it or not, there are several other potential (and medically proven) causes for a snake regurging and then dying after eating one meal and none of them have to do with the fat content of the last meal. That's why that instead of spreading the myth of a parboiled rat causing this, or a disease that has not been proven to exist, keepers in general owe it to themselves and the hobby to take the required steps to correctly and accurately identify the cause of these problems.

The OP lost a ball and two IJs before the boa regurged. At this point, a vet needs to look for systemic viral and bacterial infections first. I would ASSume that a reptile vet would look at the gastric system first and look for evidence of infection there. If that was found, the vet would then determine whether there was a chronic issue going on or wheher it was a sudden onset event.

If no gastric issues are found, other avenues would then be open for exploration. The point is that the only advice at this stage should be to get the surviving animal to the vet and tested.

Herp vet, NOW.

Don't wait. Don't dawdle, don't post on the forums anymore.

Sounds like it could be IBD. I'm not just throwing that out there to scare you (well, actually, yes I am. You really need to get to a vet and find out what's going on, especially if you have friends with reptiles, or have sold/traded any recently.

By the way Ladies and Gentlemen, the supplier that has been fingered in the "toxic" rat syndrome deaths is Rodent Pro.

Not the first name that comes to most people's minds when we talk about cheap feeders - eh?