If you think there is a difference between butter and lesser vote

I've always viewed them as the same snake, different lines. If I had butters, I'd breed them to more yellowy snakes to improve that buttery goodness. If I had lessers, I'd breed them to bright, creamy silvery snakes to improve the qualities of those. But in general it seems they both grow up looking nearly identical no matter what they looked like as babies, lol!

And both of them are GAWGEOUS!

And then of course a ball python is a ball python is a ball python, be it a desert, pastel, pied, normal, or any other 'morph'. All the same snake, they all eat, poop, and hide. We choose the colors and patterns we like best, why get so worked up over morphs vs. lines and all the drama it causes?

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Originally Posted by adamjeffery

imho regardless of what title you appropriate to an animal (lesser/butter in this case) the only way i can truly say there is a difference is when you breed them into something else. say spider for instance. spider bee's and butter bee's look completely different.

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They look no more different than the varying of any other morph. Think how much spiders vary by themselves, or pastels, or even normals. It's wouldn't prove anything because since they are the same, the difference your seeing is the other 290348239 possible alleles that change how a snake looks, not the butter/lesser allele.

It's why we have dull pastels and bright yellow pastels. The pastel allele is exactly the same, the difference is the other possible alleles we cannot label.

also since when in the last couple years are butters and lessers different prices? I keep seeing it repeated over and over again, but for the most part see them in the 250-500 dollar range depending on quality.

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

They look no more different than the varying of any other morph. Think how much spiders vary by themselves, or pastels, or even normals. It's wouldn't prove anything because since they are the same, the difference your seeing is the other 290348239 possible alleles that change how a snake looks, not the butter/lesser allele.

It's why we have dull pastels and bright yellow pastels. The pastel allele is exactly the same, the difference is the other possible alleles we cannot label.

also since when in the last couple years are butters and lessers different prices? I keep seeing it repeated over and over again, but for the most part see them in the 250-500 dollar range depending on quality.

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Exactly, when they first came on the scene everyone was saying the combos looked different, but it was just because the genepool was so small that all the offspring still looked very similar. Now that some time has passed and both lines have been outcrossed to countless normals and morphs, we see variation in the combos of both lines.

I voted both lessers. I too think they're both the same genetic mutation. I have both a butter and a lesser - and I only say that because they were sold that way so that's how I have them classified.

the point of this was to have the people who think their different vote..... not a guessing game. if their different there no guessing right?

So what's the answer??

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Originally Posted by mpkeelee

So what's the answer??

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when poll closes

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Originally Posted by Driver

I know the answer. The one on top is a :cens0r: and the one of the bottom is a :cens0r: HAHAHAHA

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you got it exactly right, lesser on top and lesser on bottom. Picture is of them breeding last year. I don't even own a butter lol.

Can this debate end now? Besides a few of you who misunderstood the intent of this. This pretty much proves, the believers of them being different morphs can't tell for themselves, so why do you still want to debate it? The whole yellowish/silver thing may of been true for the original founding animals, but that becomes farther and farther form the truth as we continue to out cross.

The variation of them comes not from the lesser/butter gene, but the other multi-thousand of possible genes that we can't clearly label but are still there changing how the snake looks. Same goes for every other morph and even normals. This is like debating if bhb pastels are different morphs than lemon pastels.

anything left to clear up?

Great idea for a thread.... I wish we could change it so everyone used one word instead of two separate ones.

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Originally Posted by that_dc5

Great idea for a thread.... I wish we could change it so everyone used one word instead of two separate ones.

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I doubt that will ever happen, same goes for ghost and hypo.