a humane way to euthanize feeders+ sad news for me+some questions about snake racks.

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Originally Posted by mr.spooky

iv gased ALOT (thousands) of rats, and mice in a C02 chaimber, and it looks like (to me) that they are suffocating. they just dont lay down and go to sleep. they run around, piss them selfs and gasp for air until they die.
if only doing a small amount of mice, cervical dislocation is the fastest way to do it. NOTE this will not work for rats.....
but your right,, you DO need to find out what type of gas you are killing your rodents with, for more reasons than just the humane factor. It could be harmful to your reptiles as well.
spooky

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This is due to you having the co2 pumping it to fast at once.

Slow gental flow where you barely hear a wisp, they will not freak out, run and anything else.

Mine will wobble as their dizzy, lay down and pass out,

They gasp at the end cause the bodys natural reaction to lack of oxygen is to breath deeply, but they are unconscious at this point

~Karl

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr.spooky

iv gased ALOT (thousands) of rats, and mice in a C02 chaimber, and it looks like (to me) that they are suffocating. they just dont lay down and go to sleep. they run around, piss them selfs and gasp for air until they die.
if only doing a small amount of mice, cervical dislocation is the fastest way to do it. NOTE this will not work for rats.....
but your right,, you DO need to find out what type of gas you are killing your rodents with, for more reasons than just the humane factor. It could be harmful to your reptiles as well.
spooky

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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

What Rich said.

That's why people use regulators - you need to be able to provide a low dosage until they are asleep then up it to kill them.


dr del

there was regulators. this was in a lab animal research facility. we had sop's and protocals that had to be followed. they were gasping for air. not all of them,, not all the time. maby the amount that i euthanised in a 5 year span seemed like i noticed it alot. regardless,,, i can asure you that they are not all laying down and going to sleep. saying that,, im confident that it is a humane way of euthanasia.
spooky

I have to agree with those who are saying compressed air is not the best way to go.

I breed feeders, that's my business. I euthanize animals from mice, to rabbits, to guinea pigs.

I have a Co2 canister (3 ft) and a regulator valve.

I put my animals in, turn the gas on low, and then they fall asleep. Once they are asleep, you turn the gas up to fully euthanize them. If you turn the gas up HIGH right away, it burns them and causes them to go from an awake state to death.

Once the gas is turned up, yes, they do gasp, but it's just a response, just like how they kick after cervical dislocation.

I find Co2 the easiest and most humane way. Cervical dislocation is a good method if you know how to do it correctly... If you don't, you can cause severe pain.

As far as canned air, although some companies make it out of safe products, some do not. I would be worried about any animal killed with canned air, as, I do not know with 100% certainty that the specific brand of canned air used is 100% safe.

Plus, there is no regulation, the spray sound probably scares the crap out of them, and it probably gets extremely cold in the container before they even go to sleep. In addition, sufficient research hasn't been done to support the fact that they are not in pain or suffering during the procedure.

It's easy enough to find Co2. I say, just get that. Any ****s, Sporting goods store, and welding supply store will have it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mr.spooky

iv gased ALOT (thousands) of rats, and mice in a C02 chaimber, and it looks like (to me) that they are suffocating. they just dont lay down and go to sleep. they run around, piss them selfs and gasp for air until they die.
if only doing a small amount of mice, cervical dislocation is the fastest way to do it. NOTE this will not work for rats.....
but your right,, you DO need to find out what type of gas you are killing your rodents with, for more reasons than just the humane factor. It could be harmful to your reptiles as well.
spooky

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With co2 it takes about a min. + to die. The compressed air takes LESS than 30 sec. My last feeder took 10 sec. That seems a lot shorter and easier than co2. I did some research about the gas that is used in the compressed air. One of the gases used is Difluoroethane. The inhalation of this gas is famous for people who "huff". But in huge doses with out o2 can cause cardiac arrest. The other gas used is trifluoroethane which is used for the accelerant. As far as harming the snakes: I researched this topic what I found is quite good... The amount of gas in the lungs is extremely small. When gas is ingested it doesn't get absorbed in the body. Think of it like air when you swallow it. It gets released by either as a burp or breaking wind. The gas is 100% harmless to the snakes.

one more thing... The compressed air has a variable trigger. you can get it to release the gas very quietly, even this will work fast. Plus, they don't run around, they in 5 seconds lay down. then they stop breathing. I am still convinced this is a great way to go.

The amount of time has no relevance to how easy the death is.
You could set the mouse on fire, and I'm sure it will die in about 30 seconds. You could drop it into boiling water and I'm sure it will be quicker. That doesn't mean it's humane.

Gas injested DOES get into the body. That's why smoking is a way to injest drugs, and so is insuflating.

Please do more research, we're all suggesting it.

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Originally Posted by Rhasputin

The amount of time has no relevance to how easy the death is.
You could set the mouse on fire, and I'm sure it will die in about 30 seconds. You could drop it into boiling water and I'm sure it will be quicker. That doesn't mean it's humane.

Gas injested DOES get into the body. That's why smoking is a way to injest drugs, and so is insuflating.

Please do more research, we're all suggesting it.

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I appreciate your responses. But the fact of the matter is, as reptile owners we usually need to kill mice. And all feeder mice or rats somewhere down the line need to die. Whether it be pre-killed, frozen, or live feeding. The humane killing is a wide ranged issue: Take feeding live. Many of us do it, but we tend not to do it as it can hurt our snakes. We usually never think about it from the other way around... Think about live feeding from the mouses point of view: first a giant unfamiliar animal bites you with 100s of teeth, and crushes you do death. you can't breathing or out. you are choking and scared. Your bones come out of socket and even break, and you die in a minute and a half+. In the scheme of things, that seems very inhumane. The compressed air shouldn't be compared to burning alive in fire or boiling water. The rats LITERALLY lay down and sleep. they don't run, or piss themselves. If it is painful, it sure as hell is 1000x shorter and far less than the live feedings. Even with co2, you are suffocating. It even if they fall asleep to some degree is somewhat painful. The better thing with both compressed air and co2 is that you can freely breath, reducing the fear. I feel that for right now the humane factor is quite good compared to most others. This method is quick and easy as a euthanasia device. Also, about your comeback of smoking as injecting gas... there is a distinct difference with swallowing and breathing through the lungs. The amount of gas in the lungs of the mouse is small. It does kill the mouse, but once swallowed by the snake, is harmless. There is so little gas in the lungs of the mouse that it in and of it's self not threatening to the snake. But by ingesting that gas by stomach, it does not get absorbed by the body. The main gas used as mentioned is, Difluoroethane. The gas its self is very very briefly introduced to the mouse or rat. The amount of gas in the blood stream or the mouse is even more minuscule. Please stop bashing me for my way of euthanasia. The degree of pain seems to be near, or at the level of co2. This is so far and away better for multiple rats at a time than dislocation. Plus there isn't a possible chance of missing the head. The rat goes in very nicely, and it doesn't even struggle.

One last thing... I have done more research than when I started using this method. You guys haunt even researched this topic even slightly. It is very apparent that you guys are shooting from the hip with your responses. Sure, I'm not an expert yet on this subject of compressed air, but I have researched this topic more than you have. Please stop calling this completely inhumane. As a euthanasia tactic for feeders, it is certainly a good way to go.

Everyone was only mentioning it as there have been plenty of studies that have tried to find the most humane and safe way to euthanize animals. I'm pretty sure compressed air has been tested and there is probably a reason that it is not used more widely..

I realize you have done research, a lot more than myself on the subject i'm sure, we just want to make sure that you know, it 'could' be potentially dangerous to your animals.

Either way, you will do what you want to do. Most here were just trying to offer help.