Debating getting rid of everything...

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Originally Posted by tejanastar

I got hooked about 3 yrs ago. I first got a normal from PetSmart. Then was a Pastel Jungle that caused a great deal of stress eating and so forth, long story, but basically I got her from Kingsnake a "reputable breeder" she never ate. Tried everything. I got her at a year old. Kept her for a year. So at 2yrs old she ate once (softfurred) and NEVER shed. She died at 364 grams at 2yrs old. Paid a good amount of money to 3 separate vets and all said that she had NO parasites, etc. She hated people, wouldnt eat, always biting, when I would pick her up she always wanted to be up high to climb up on something. Anyway, she started having brown horrible smelling liquid come out of her mouth and cloaca. She died about a day after that. As soon as she passed, I laid her on her back, and did an autopsy. I slit her from head to tail, and found that her stomach and liver had ruptured. PLUS her tissue was flaking off and white like a mold. I was very proud of myself on what I learned that night at 3am. I keep a detailed report on all my animals that have passed. This helps me to remember certain situations and the outcomes etc incase I have the same situation with a future snake.

Anyway, after her and all the problems and stress I had with her, I still have another 11 snakes that I have since bought. Ranging from hets to normals, to my Caramel Albino female that I love. (NO KINK!!! :D) I am in it for the love of the animals.

Every morning I check temps, water, spot clean, and spend 10-15min holding each one and talking to them. It is time consuming. Recently one of them had a RI and I babied her like there was no tomorrow. Morning and night I would take a Q-Tip and swab her mucous out of her mouth, notate in my book, give her oral suspension of Baytril and notate again. It is time consuming and it is something that I enjoy. I am the kind of person that if I don't love what Im doing then I don't do it.

For me, its not about the money, I enjoy my collection. I PLAN ahead what I want to breed and this way I know what to buy instead of just buy something for the sake of buying something. If I don't make my money back then oh well. Everything happens for a reason.

Adult female BP 9 our of 10 times sell for more than a baby/hatchling. Thats true even with Normals. A normal hatchling can sell for $20 but my adult 8yr old Proven female cost me $60. So, depending on what you spent in total (I keep a record of everything included feeders,etc) you may NOT make back what you put into it, however, you will be happier if you are removing yourself from something that you do not enjoy.

BTW-Im looking for a female Pastel around breeding weight for my Spider.....So, ill be a potential buyer depending on what you have! :D

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I think that seeing the joy everyone else has in the entire process has shown me that I don't really care for all the time and maintenance that goes into it. I don't think its worth it now.

As for prices, I have done a little checking around but really, things are only worth what people want to pay so if I decide to get rid of everything, then I'll try to keep things reasonable and not squeeze every penny out of it. I would like to recoup my original purchase prices, but the food, housing, etc that's all a wash I'm not worried about making my money back on that.

I do have a female pastel, but she is a bit thin for breeding right now. Around 800-900 grams. If I do end up selling, I will let you know.

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Can you go into more detail as to what "cool stuff" happening with your balls entails? More personality? Breeding? What........?

I'll ASSume after reading what was highlighted, that the balls were more of a money-making venture than anything else........

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By cool stuff I mean producing the morphs I am shooting for. Even though the tedious stuff is bothersome, its still exciting watching the eggs pip and seeing the little guys start their lives. I don't expect the snakes demeanor to change in the slightest. I figure they are how they are, and that is all there is to it.

The balls were my attempt at producing cool stuff for my collection and funding the hobby. Rather than having a pair of het pieds, I bought a male and 3 females. Hoping that 2 of the 3 lay, I get a nice pied for me, and maybe one or two to sell to recoup the costs. Same thing with the other morphs. Bought a female Mojave because I want a BEL. Never got around to purchasing a lesser/butter/mojave male, so I was going to put my spider with her until I do have a male for that project. Bought a het axanthic pair because I wanted to make an axanthic bumblebee down the road. Bought a pair of het albinos because I want albinos. And so on...

If I wanted to make money only, dealing with recessives I would have purchased all homozygous and bred together so that I wouldn't end up with a bunch of possible het hatchlings. There is no money in those.

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Originally Posted by cdavidson9

I have a feeling he's speaking of completing some successful breeding projects, but I can't speak for the OP. Just from reading his post it's what I take from it.

To the OP: After reading everything it sounds to me like you obviously really enjoy animals with more personality. Some people I know totally think that BPs have awesome and distinct personalities which I can agree with to some extent, however after owning a Carpet Python and handeling some other species I know where you are coming from.

It seems to me that you got into the BP projects mainly for the money and for "seeing" some different morphs that you wanted to produce on your own. I know this is a HUGE part of why I and many other people get into this hobby (wanting to produce certain morphs), however we all know that you do have to have a boat load of patience. We all know that it can take a couple/three years just to get the animals to be breed ready, then we can't guarantee the animal producing viable eggs, THEN to even produce the snake we want, the odds have to be in our favor also!

Basically I guess what I'm trying to say is if you love the big, sporty snakes, def keep them... then ask yourself if you have the patience to work toward producing the BP morphs you intended to produce when you initially bought your animals. If no, then make a nice sale and spend the cash on something that doesn't take as much patience :)

Anytime I'm at a crossroads with a major (or non-major) decision in life I simply make a table with pen and paper. One side stating the Pro's of the situation/outcome/idea/whatever, and the other side the Negatives. List everything you can think of on each side, and it then makes it much easier to come upon a decision. Just an idea. :gj:

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Thank you! I hadn't thought about making a pros/cons list. I will do that and let that be the deciding factor. You are right though, the patience is a problem. This last season, when only one of the 8 females I had lock up laid, and I missed out on the pied gene (she was a possible het) the wind sort of got taken out of my sails. It was still exciting because it was my first clutch and even though I screwed up the incubation in the beginning, I hatched out 4 of 4 all healthy babies. Still though, I wanted so badly to see a pied in one of those eggs. Since then, everything has just been going through the motions. I'm still pairing this year, and even if I do sell, I will keep the 3 females I have had lock up so far already, because I still want to see some morphs. I want to say that I successfully hatched a morph. I am looking at the possibility of regular piebalds, albinos, fires and pyro pieds - that part is still exciting. Maybe I just need to scale down?

Hmm... thanks again though for the table idea!

No prob dude! It always works for me. At first when you start it, it feels kind of silly.. but the more and more I do it the more and more it makes sense.

Best of luck with whatever you do, and always remember how awesome it felt (I know it did from experience) what it was like to produce those baby snakies :)

This whole thread just hurts my brain. If people want something intelligent that they can be active with then buy or better yet rescue a dog. I havent owned my BP for that long but I have loved all animals my whole life and have this argument with my wife all the time. She says why do I want more snakes in the future because they dont love me back. And I tell her that they dont have to love me because I love them. Plus I already have 2 boxers that give me more love than I need most days...LOL. I just love animals and dont think anyone should own them to profit off of or just to play genetic God. All animals are something you just have to have a passion for. Yea I want to breed someday and sell a few. But I want to breed beautiful snakes that I can just be amazed by and love. The high end snakes I want I dont even want to sell. I want them for my own personal enjoyment. Obviously I will not start this project until after I buy a house and have all my ducks in a row cause it is just unfair to the animals to own them before your ready. So I feel that if you don't know whether you should keep 1 snake or 100 snakes, then just find them a new home and move on to something your more passionate about. It just hurts my soul to see people use animals for hobbies instead of love. What a shame.

Oh and just to add. Think of owning an animal like vegas. Dont bring more to the table then your willing to lose. Cause then you will resent your animal and that ends up poorly for everyone involved.

I think you have already more or less made your mind up and you are just looking for people to help reaffirm your choice. You have already stated that you enjoy the bigger snakes more, so I would focus your attention there. Maybe see if you could trade some balls for some of the snakes you truly enjoy or sell the balls and invest that money elsewhere. In the end you can find amazing homes for the snakes you have I am sure, you already have people here offering to take some off of your hands.

Just remember that in the end it really is your choice. If you feel you'd enjoy something else more than the ball pythons or you feel the wait is just too much, then go with something else. If you do not truly love it, then it isn't worth it imo.

Maybe look in to breeding a different sort of snake? :] If you like breeding to a point (I mean.. poop cleaning isn't the most exciting thing out there, I don't believe anyone who says they love cleaning poop, lol! Sorry. :P) then maybe it's just that ball pythons aren't for you!

You said yourself you love your bigger snakes, maybe get into them a little more? Retics and RTBs have loads more spunk than balls and burms, that's not to say they can't have their own personality too. Maybe that's where your true love will lie? There are some AMAZING morphs out there for those guys, and I personally find all three of those snakes more attractive than BPs. >__>

Maybe you just chose the wrong snake to breed? :] You could offer trades for boas or retics, and then switch your collection over! You gotta find what you love, not just what you like. There's enough money in the others to perhaps recoup some feeding costs and whatnot, too! :D

@vexer19 - Your desire to breed the animals eventually is no different than mine, I am just doing it now. I do have a dog and I love him. I didn't get into snakes wishing for them to love me. I think they are fascinating. Pure primal instinct with no emotions. As for playing God, that is what we are doing by owning them as pets. I'm pretty positive that out in nature, these guys wouldn't end up in glass terrariums or plastic tubs...

@Crawly's Mom - You are sort of right. I have been saying I want to get rid of them for a while, but part of me doesn't. So I am looking for affirmation or a good reason for me not to. I do love my big snakes, but I am not in a place where more would be feasible. I have 5 ball python racks that collectively holds upwards of 40 snakes and all that takes up less space than one cage for the big guys. I'd like to have a lavender retic, but not unless I get a new house. When I do sell snakes, I try to be pretty picky about who they go to. I won't just sell them to anyone, because I want to make sure they are taken care of. I do care about them enough not to just dump them off.

@Misfit - I have thought about breeding the big guys but again, don't really have the space. Also, I don't think I would feel comfortable putting more giants out on the market. Just about anyone with half a brain can take good care of a ball python. However, it takes someone truly dedicated to care for a giant properly. They cost a ton more and take up a lot more space.

I do appreciate everyone helping me decide what I am going to do.

I would say that you may be better off selling your balls and putting that money aside for when you have the space for the snake you really want and would really and truly love. The only good reason in my opinion to keep them is if you love them. I mean why else would you really do it? Sure you can eventually turn a profit with the right snakes and a whole lot of patience, but it still takes a lot of love and dedication to get to that point.

I think if you do decide to find new homes for your balls that there are plenty of people who'd be willing to give them a quality home. This site has amazing people on it who really care for the snakes. Heck if you have a lesser, butter, mojo, or albino female... I'd give one a great home too! Good luck with whatever you decide. :)

Ditch the balls, and try something else.

You really seem to enjoy some of your larger snakes. I agree with you, I don't think balls have a whole lot of activity/personality, though I do have a few "pets" that remain.

Look, there are plenty of fish in the sea. Try going to a big show like NARBC and look around at something other than the ball pythons. I have really started to steer away from balls and towards carpets (all morelia really), spotted pythons, KSBs, I recently got a young BRB that I just adore, and I've started to really enjoy arboreal colubrids.

You can't expect it to pay for itself, ever. You just can't. But you can try to find your niche and passion. If it turns out that you like having 5 snakes of different species and sizes all as pets, then DO IT. No one said you have to breed. I do it because it's rewarding to ME, but not with bps.

I think you are at your limit with the balls and its time to move on. You keep using words such as "chore" and "worth" it, and I believe once it becomes a chore, what type of love can you have for it?

I do hope you figure out the best situation for you ( and your snakes! ) and if you do decide to get rid of them, let me know. I'll be interested ;)