Please help me!!! Humidity issues...

It seems like you just went out and bought stuff with little thought and without reading some of the advice people have posted; no offense intended, but it seems that way from what you changed before asking if its for the best.

Anyway, your humidity is way too high. These guys aren't tree-frogs, they're snakes that live in frickin' AFRICA. 75-85 is far too high, even during shed. Your're going to give your snake RI, and I know from experience that it sucks. Having a sick snake is pretty heart-wrenching. All of a sudden you see various alien behavior, and you start to freak out - not good at all. Misting the tank that many times a day, and with a fogger to boot, isn't necessary. Humidity should be around 50-60%, 60-70% during shed ONLY.

Also, the 12 hour heat cycle you have going there is only recommended for breeding to trick the females into thinking it's their season, as far as I've read. Otherwise it's completely unhealthy. You're going to need a hotspot of 88-92 degrees at all times, along with a cool end of 78-80 and ambient of 84-85. 75 is too cold and 95 is too hot. No fluctuating temps, they're not made like humans. They can deal with a little, but a 10 degree drop all around isn't ideal.

If you have the money to buy all of that, you have the money to buy an entirely plastic enclosure that keeps heat and humidity in WITHOUT ALL THAT EFFORT at the proper levels. Might I suggest the T1 here: http://www.animalplastics.com/ I'm saving up for that, it seems ideal for a full grown BP and is the most cost effective out of all commercial reptile enclosures. I recommend doing that or finding something similar, and returning all of the stuff you went out and bought.

Ok, as I stated before, when the humidity drops below 50 I'll fog it. This takes about a day. I fog to 85 because it drops ten percent in ten minutes or less. I think you mis understood what I meant. I was misting 4 plus times when I was running 2 lights with an open top. Now I have the top sealed up just enough that it holds heat with just one light at a time, thus not baking my mulch until its dry as a popcorn fart. If I wanted I could get the same result in humidity by one good spraying in the morning. The fogger simply lets me do it without taking the lid off. As far as the day/night temperature cycle, all the books, caresheets etc. that I've read said twelve on twelve off. Change to sixteen on, eight off to trick them into breeding. Everything I've read also said a gradient of 80 to 90. The reading of 95 is right under the lamp. Inside the snakes warm hide I'm guessing its just right because she has a warm and a cool hide, and she favors the warm one throughout the day. She doesn't cruise around restless. And that at night the temp can drop to around 75 as long as a basking spot of 80 to 85 is available. I'll check my research again, but please don't think I just went out and bought a bunch of neat looking stuff without careful thought about how it would all work together to create a mini habitat. I looked at the t1 you suggested and I'm sorry but I love looking at my snake in a somewhat natural setting too much to just put it in a black plastic box or a tote or anything like that. I realize a lot of folks on here use these, but I can't bring myself to put such a pretty animal in something like that as if it was extra blankets or christmas decorations or something. In my humble opinion if you are gonna keep an animal captive, the least you can do is give it an enclosure that mimics its natural habitat as closely as humanly possible. That is what I'm aiming for.

I've kept balls for quite awhile now.... I know that doesn't mean anything to you but I feel like with a healthy colony of 60 plus and hatchlings every season I must be doing something right. Anyways, the differences between plastic and glass aside here's the things I would change ASAP.
1. Get rid of the bright lights. Try a radiant heat panel or even a ceramic heat emmiter. The bright lights are not only unnecessary but stressful. More stress equals a compromised immune system. Equals issues.
2. Keep heat on at optimal temps 24:7. Unless youre breeding there's no reason for a night drop. And for breeders the heat doesn't just get shut off its gradually dropped and a process. For some they don't even use a heat drop. Every single one of my breeders/ babies have heat and optimal conditions 24:7. No questions asked. Any less and you'll have an Ri within time.

I see what you're trying to accomplish by saying you want to mimic the natural world. But I just don't think you know enough about their actual habitat and habits in the wild to do that. Not saying you couldn't but what you are offering now is far far away from what these guys are experiencing out in Africa.
And in the end Wcs don't have the luxury of a human doting over them. Our pets and cb animals do. Let's do what's best for them and not what we think will make them feel more wild.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

I would dis agree with the lights issue myself there is no evidence that lights cause stress. My vet suggested that there is a new study being done suggesting something linking UVB and growth rates and skin health in nocturnal snakes. I personally can't find that yet and am waiting for the study so that is just a rumour at this point until there is some hard numbers. I do know for certain that the longest lived royal (47 years +) was kept with a day night cycle of light. (12 on 12 off)

That being said don't night drop and always maintain a hot spot. 75 is on the scary low side. The breeders I know whom use a night drop for breeding only drop ambient air temps and cool side surface temps and then only 3-4 degrees.

Every set up is different as every home has different conditions and challenges. Foggers generally speaking have bacteria issues and well raise a red flag, for me it is a band aid and not a real solution, there are better methods. There have been a number of suggestions that I personally think are better options.

While I understand your standpoint on the lights I'll just say that in the wild these animals are holed up in old termite mounds/ deep borrows during the day. Therefore lights pounding down on them daily will understandably make them uncomfortable IMO. Some are more adaptable than others. I have a couple that need black out boxes in my racks for even the daily natural light. I feel that natural light still gives them that day cycle without it being right in top of them making their enclosure uncomfortable.
I Have heard the same from my vet. "All captive animals need UVB" but I also look at the animal. Balls are quite private and secretive animals. They stay holed up in pitch black until they go out to hunt at night. With the animals I've had experience with, it just seems like the bright bright day bulbs tend to be too harsh on them.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

I'm not sure if this has been said or not, but a trick i came up with to help with humidity is to take some paper towel, put in on the screen soak it to the point that it is just about to start dripping or even let it drip a bit then cover it with tinfoil and a towel. My BP is in a 40 gallon tank and by doing this and misting once a day i can keep the humidity between 50%-60% even with a heat lamp on. And if the heat lamp is off it tends to get around 70%-80%.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Hydrolicious

It seems like you just went out and bought stuff with little thought and without reading some of the advice people have posted; no offense intended, but it seems that way from what you changed before asking if its for the best.

Anyway, your humidity is way too high. These guys aren't tree-frogs, they're snakes that live in frickin' AFRICA. 75-85 is far too high, even during shed. Your're going to give your snake RI, and I know from experience that it sucks. Having a sick snake is pretty heart-wrenching. All of a sudden you see various alien behavior, and you start to freak out - not good at all. Misting the tank that many times a day, and with a fogger to boot, isn't necessary. Humidity should be around 50-60%, 60-70% during shed ONLY.

Also, the 12 hour heat cycle you have going there is only recommended for breeding to trick the females into thinking it's their season, as far as I've read. Otherwise it's completely unhealthy. You're going to need a hotspot of 88-92 degrees at all times, along with a cool end of 78-80 and ambient of 84-85. 75 is too cold and 95 is too hot. No fluctuating temps, they're not made like humans. They can deal with a little, but a 10 degree drop all around isn't ideal.

If you have the money to buy all of that, you have the money to buy an entirely plastic enclosure that keeps heat and humidity in WITHOUT ALL THAT EFFORT at the proper levels. Might I suggest the T1 here: http://www.animalplastics.com/ I'm saving up for that, it seems ideal for a full grown BP and is the most cost effective out of all commercial reptile enclosures. I recommend doing that or finding something similar, and returning all of the stuff you went out and bought.

---

These guys live in termite mounds, with 100% humidity year round. Humidity is fine, what you don't want is excess condensation, and dampness. Contrary to popular opinion, you can have high humidity WITHOUT a wet tub or terrarium. You just need proper ventilation.

75-80% is not too high so long as moisture is not building up to the degree where all the tubs/tank's sides are sopping. Regardless of what anyone says, it is your snake, and you need to do what is best for YOUR snake. These guys are much heartier then they are given credit for. If you have a UTH(regulated, obviously) you don't even need the lights. I would ditch the lights, get a proper cover that ventilates well, and maybe give the cage a quick misting if you notice humidity is dropping too low.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Homegrownscales

While I understand your standpoint on the lights I'll just say that in the wild these animals are holed up in old termite mounds/ deep borrows during the day. Therefore lights pounding down on them daily will understandably make them uncomfortable IMO. Some are more adaptable than others. I have a couple that need black out boxes in my racks for even the daily natural light. I feel that natural light still gives them that day cycle without it being right in top of them making their enclosure uncomfortable.
I Have heard the same from my vet. "All captive animals need UVB" but I also look at the animal. Balls are quite private and secretive animals. They stay holed up in pitch black until they go out to hunt at night. With the animals I've had experience with, it just seems like the bright bright day bulbs tend to be too harsh on them.


Check out what's new on my website... www.Homegrownscales.com

---

I feel it is open for debate I know there are ongoing studies with corns and UVB that are showing differences but it is unclear how important they are. however there is well documented ground evidence of royals out in the early morning sun and late afternoon. Nocturnal yes most of the activity is during the night but not all of the activity is.

The termite mound issue is a second partial myth. They are often found in some areas in termite mounds but living solely? No. It is easy to prove the population density in Togo of royals exceeds, termite mounds, by more than 50% so unless you believe royals to be social snakes, many living in one mound, half must be else where.

High humidity and poor air flow is KNOWN to be a cause of respiratory issues. Documented by some of the best known herp vets and researchers around. (Dr. J Rossi and Dr. R Klingenburg for example) There are other causes, and many guesses but this one is certain. Using restricted air flow and high humidity is begging trouble down the road.

The whole debate is actually fairly silly as there is a easy and simple option that is being ignored. humid hides.

some of you are confusing the hell out of me. as far as humidity goes, i have that problem solved now. but i am confused about the day night temperature cycle. why do some of you say that the temperature shouldnt drop at night? how/where did you learn this? is there a book or website where i can read this for myself? i mean you all NO DISRESPECT, but honestly if you google "ball python care sheet" and read all the different results they all say the same thing, and it isn't "keep temperature the same through day and night". i realize a lot of you have been keeping these animals for years and i have only had mine a short time, so i am trying to remain teachable, but its kinda hard with all the conflicting info. also for what its worth, ball pythons are crepuscular, meaning most active at dawn and dusk. and they live in lots of places in their range. rodent burrows, rocky outcrops, termite mounds, under dead trees... as you can imagine, rocky outcrops probably dont have nearly as much humidity as a termite mound, the temperature range probably differs a good deal as well. and the snakes keep on truckin. I'm starting to get the idea that there really is no right or wrong, black or white answer to a lot of these questions. i'm guessing it has more to do with what seems to keep the snake in good spirits (eating, good sheds, good bowel movements, not cruising the tank restlessly like it needs to find a way out or find something it doesnt have...)

You can stick a ball python in a tank with no heat and no hides and feed it once a month and it will probably still survive and live for quite a while. They are VERY hardy creatures, which is why they survive so well out in the wild as you clearly pointed out. The point of this forum and this caresheet is to explain the sliding scale of requirements to keep your ball python living healthy and stress free to the best of our abilities. I've only been on this forum for about a year, but I proud to say I would NEVER go anywhere else for information on most herps. The people, the caresheets, the mods and admins all have a deep passion for these animals, and all info given on most threads have been tested out over and over by members for years.

Day/night drop temps are not necessary because they are primarily used to stimulate breeding. Other than that, they bear no other use. It's a waste of bulbs, domes, and electricity, and in thermostats, it's a waste in a "night drop" function.

The reason there are so many members, and so many people successfully keeping healthy and stress free ball pythons is because we are different from google. I can google "flying cow" and I guarantee I'll get results. You can't trust everything you find on google. Not saying the caresheets you've came across aren't right, they just aren't ideal, and usually consist of misleading info.

Under the caresheet, under "Temps" it states "TEMPERATURE
~80F (ambient temps)
~90F (basking temps)
75 or below is unhealthy
Night drops in temps are not necessary or desired

Maintaining proper temperatures is essential to keeping your ball python healthy – failure to do so can lead to a host of issues from poor feeding to potentially lethal respiratory infections. For this reason you want to make sure you are able to measure the temperatures accurately. The sticker-type thermometers used in aquariums, and the little dials usually found in pet stores are routinely inaccurate and do little more than measure the temps of the glass to which they are adhered. Do yourself and your ball python a favor and invest in a digital thermometer. One of the most cost-effective and easily available is the Accu-Rite digital thermometer/hygrometer combo available at large stores such as Wal-Mart. These retail for less than $15 and include a probe making it possible to monitor the warm side and cool side temps as well as the humidity levels all simultaneously."

Hope I answered your question :)