ASFs or Regular Ol' Rats??

I love ASFs. They're a good size for BPs/GTP and don't smell too terribly bad. They mostly pee in one corner making for easy spot cleanings. Best of all, I only have one girl that refuses to eat them so I don't have to breed rats or mice.

And whether they get hooked on them or not, who cares if you breed your own?

Also, be smarter than the rat. Watch where their face is, pick them up by the base of the tail and stop letting them bite you :P

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Originally Posted by punyhuman07

With Asf you need to becareful with breeding of rodents for over 12 years snakes mainly Ball pythons can get hooked on asf and not go back to rats. I have seen it many times. Asf are great for if you have picky eaters and thats about it. But man do they hurt when thy bite lol like a feral kitten lol...But i would stick with rats way easier imo.. We do both here where i live and well sell rat 5:1 over Asf.

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I do not agree with this. My ball pythons eat ASFs, rats, mice and f/t. Yes, occasionally a BP will prefer ASFs, but I've had no problems switching food. I think this is one of those rumors that will not die. I believe it is fairly rare (but not unheard of) for a ball python to get "hooked on ASFs".

Then what happends when you run out of the size you need? That's where the problem lies. I have seen time and time again. And not every pet store carries Asf... Also with Asf they will chew everything we have had them chew through mortar tubs fast so we started keepin them in trios in 20 gallon long tanks

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

Same reason you can't breed with an ape. BTW, ASF's and rats can't breed with mice either.

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Ok no need to be rude? This is a forums website...no question is dumb! And I know rats and mice cant breed! I just asked about ASFs and Regular Rats cuz they are both rats! Peace out!

PS...Howd you know I like APES??:zerb:

Pros Vs. Cons. DUN DUN DUNNNNNNNnnnnn..... (of ASF breeding)

Pro's.

- Less Smell :)
- Larger Litters
- Picky BP's can be persuaded to eat a tasty little ASF
- Easy to sell, hard to find in the market (at least they are here in Toronto)

Cons....

- Limited adult size (about the size of a small rat) you will have to feed multiples.
- They bite.. often
- Many BPs wont switch back to rats if you get them on ASF
- They Ugly yo.. evil little turds.
- Slower growth


Depends on what matters to you - personally I would go with the Norway Rats, easier to manage.

Cheers.

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Originally Posted by punyhuman07

mainly Ball pythons can get hooked on asf and not go back to rats. I have seen it many times.

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Not true (at least from what I have seen). I have a large personal collection. I have also run a home based reptile rescue for years. I have had personal hands on experience with 100's of ball pythons. I have never come across a BP that can not be changed from ASF's to normal rats. If everything else is right, it is usually very easy to do.

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Originally Posted by bokuza

Youll get bit by ASFs.

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Not always true, depending on where you get your ASF's from. Their are established lines now that are much less likely to bite.. and if you know how to handle them, you won't get bit period.

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Originally Posted by punyhuman07

Then what happends when you run out of the size you need? That's where the problem lies. I have seen time and time again. And not every pet store carries Asf...

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Options.

1.) Set up your ASF breeding so you don't ever run out of the size you need. This is pretty easy to do with planning because of their slow growth rate.
2.) If you do run out of a particular size, simply skip a week of feeding for your snakes. Many keepers do this on occasion to keep appetites up anyway.
3.) Go to the local pet shop and buy some normal rats equal in size to the asf the snake is eating. 19 times out of 20 an established asf eater will strike first and ask quesiton later.

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Originally Posted by decensored

- Less Smell :)
- Larger Litters
- Picky BP's can be persuaded to eat a tasty little ASF
- Easy to sell, hard to find in the market (at least they are here in Toronto)

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True.

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Originally Posted by decensored

Cons - Limited adult size (about the size of a small rat) you will have to feed multiples.

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Not true. Sure, you could feed big adult ball pythons multiple ASF's, but it isn't necessary. Even my biggest girls (over 3,000 grams) only get one x large asf per week. They eat each and every week immediately, and it certainly hasn't hurt my average clutch size! :)

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Originally Posted by decensored

- They bite.. often

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Not always true. Again, depending on line.

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Originally Posted by decensored

- Many BPs wont switch back to rats if you get them on ASF

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Not true in my experience...

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Originally Posted by decensored

- They Ugly yo.. evil little turds.

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Not true... IMHO they look a lot cuter then normal rats. :D

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Originally Posted by decensored

- Slower growth

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True, but it isn't a bad thing. Slower growth means that you will almost always have the right size available for younger snakes with proper planning.

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Originally Posted by decensored

Depends on what matters to you - personally I would go with the Norway Rats, easier to manage.

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Everyone is entitled to their own opinion... That said I don't know how anyone can claim that Norways are easier to manage... set up a 1.3 group and your done. no taking male out, no micro managing. Just keep them fed and watered and make lots of babies.

To the OP, I can tell you this. When people start breeding Mice and Rats, 99% of the time when someone gives up it is because of the smell. Rats smell horrible. Mice are even worse. No matter what you do, they will stink all of the time. Clean a rat or mouse enclosure and put brand new substrate in. Come back a couple hours later and it will already stink.

ASF on the other hand (if cleaned once a week, if kept in the right enclosure, if kept with proper ventalation, if fed the right food, if fed the correct amount of food, if not over crowded) will have little to no odor in between cleanings.

Mike:

I have to point out that your experience is not typical. It is the exception based on your location, the size of your operation and the number of years of experience. Add to that your record keeping and scientific analysis and you should concede that the rest of us may not have the same opinion of ASF's.

But, as always, thank you for posting. I have learned a lot from your efforts.

John

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Originally Posted by JohnNJ

I have to point out that your experience is not typical. It is the exception based on your location, the size of your operation and the number of years of experience. Add to that your record keeping and scientific analysis and you should concede that the rest of us may not have the same opinion of ASF's.

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I don't understand?

The OP was asking what readers thought were better... Rats or ASF's. IMHO especially for newbies, ASF's are the clear winner. Only exception to this is if of course you are in a state where they are illegal.

How is my experience not typical?

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

How is my experience not typical?

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The fact that you don't agree with what lots of others post about ASF's.