Kelley BlueBook of Ball Pythons...

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Originally Posted by GR8DANE

that link does have some validity to it...march 2011 i purchased a spider and pastel for 350, cuz bees were 700-850, 9 months later male bees are selling for 450, that almost a 50% drop in "market value":O

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Back in February 2011 I found a 2010 female bee advertised for $600. This wasn't a hatchling either, she was probably around 6 months old at the time. This was with a "big breeder." I just checked another big breeder's site and see females bees going for $550. Given that the one available now is maybe a month or two old and is less than half the size the 2010 was, I would say prices are staying pretty steady.

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Originally Posted by CapeFearConstrictors

Back in February 2011 I found a 2010 female bee advertised for $600. This wasn't a hatchling either, she was probably around 6 months old at the time. This was with a "big breeder." I just checked another big breeder's site and see females bees going for $550. Given that the one available now is maybe a month or two old and is less than half the size the 2010 was, I would say prices are staying pretty steady.

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That really doesn't mean the prices are steady at all. You checked the prices of two animals within the same year. That's hardly a substantial sample of the market. If you read the article you will see a few really good example of morphs that crashed down in price, like the Pinstripe.

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Originally Posted by PassionsPythons

That post you linked is absurd. It's full of "what ifs". That is truely not how the ball python market works. I'm sure that is the way it works for lower end breeders because it's more difficult to sell single gene animals each and every year. However the people that breed and sell the higher end stuff make up their own prices. I doubt very seriously that Kevin from Nerd is sitting in front of his computer on kingsnake trying to figure out how to price his animals. The scenario used is very far fetched. I don't believe that a "Kelley Blue Book" is the answer either. How are you going to keep it updated? Prices change everyday. You either buy quality from someone you trust or you buy the cheapest thing you can find. I'm a firm believe in you get what you pay for. I paid $600 for a hatchling mojave female last year, just becuase she looked better than any mojave I'd ever seen. And she is still the hottest mojave I've ever seen.

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Absurd is a pretty inappropriate word to use. When reading the article it's easy to research some of the information used in it and see for yourself that it's true.

And seriously, even if you go to the NERD website, their prices are slightly higher than the Kingsnake norm, but not by much. I'm not sure what you're basing this post on, as just a few minutes of research can show how drastically certain morphs has dropped in price.

And this isn't about "You get what you pay for" either. I bought my pastel butter for around $200 more than average market price, because he was absolutely worth it. However, back in 2009 pastel butters were going for around $400 - $500 more than what I paid as the AVERAGE price.

Do people even proofread their posts? There are some posts that I read it and still have no idea what the person was talking about due to so many errors. But on to the topic at hand. There are so many new morphs coming out daily that I highly doubt the industry is in trouble. As far as that post goes its utter rubbish. Just a guy that's upset that he can't sell his animals at a high price. Myself being a breeder just starting out I look at any business plan. If you want to sell your product you have to be cheaper. When my company is looking to have work done we take 3 bids. Whoever is cheaper takes the work. We do take into account quality but with snakes quality is in the eye of the buyer. I have bought some snakes at a fraction of big breeder prices that looked way better. When I sell my animals I will be looking at what that particular snake is going for on several sites and sell it for just under that. That's the way business works and there is no getting around it. If I want to sell I have to be cheap. Nothing against nerd but I would never buy a snake from them. Not because I don't want to but because I can't afford to. They price their snakes so high that I'm not willing to pay for the nerd name. I can't get the same quality from some guy breeding out of his basement. Just my .02

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Originally Posted by meowmeowkazoo

...like the Pinstripe.

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Yep, that's the one I always go to. In 2004, the going price on Pins was $30,000.

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Originally Posted by Rat160

Do people even proofread their posts? There are some posts that I read it and still have no idea what the person was talking about due to so many errors. But on to the topic at hand. There are so many new morphs coming out daily that I highly doubt the industry is in trouble. As far as that post goes its utter rubbish. Just a guy that's upset that he can't sell his animals at a high price. Myself being a breeder just starting out I look at any business plan. If you want to sell your product you have to be cheaper. When my company is looking to have work done we take 3 bids. Whoever is cheaper takes the work. We do take into account quality but with snakes quality is in the eye of the buyer. I have bought some snakes at a fraction of big breeder prices that looked way better. When I sell my animals I will be looking at what that particular snake is going for on several sites and sell it for just under that. That's the way business works and there is no getting around it. If I want to sell I have to be cheap. Nothing against nerd but I would never buy a snake from them. Not because I don't want to but because I can't afford to. They price their snakes so high that I'm not willing to pay for the nerd name. I can't get the same quality from some guy breeding out of his basement. Just my .02

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Colin Weaver isn't exactly "just a guy that's upset he can't sell his snakes." I believe he genuinely cares about the welfare of the hobby. Because you are a new breeder (as I am), is it so hard to believe that somebody who has been around longer may know more than you about the ball python market?

And don't you think it would bother you if you have some good quality stock (quality is not ALWAYS in the eye of the beholder) for sale, and some schmuck lists his morphs for a LOT lower? Then you get people emailing you saying "Well this guy listed his for $300 less than yours, will you sell it to me for that price?" Then of course, you get some people who list theirs for that same low price to be competitive, and it starts a horrible chain reaction which ends in the value of the animal lowering significantly.

I don't know how you feel, but it would bother me.

I recently saw somebody post about how they bought a pair of Albinos a few years ago, and now they won't even make their deposit back in the first clutch, because prices have dropped so much.

As a community, I feel it's important for us to maintain high standards. Not just with the health and quality of our animals, but with pricing as well. It's incredibly selfish for somebody to price their animals well below the asking price, thus risking the value of EVERY animal of that morph just so they can make some quick cash.

I know a few people on here (Robin comes to mind) who are very picky about the animals they breed. They charge slightly more than market price, and they have no trouble moving their animals. Why? Because they've put the time and money in to producing a great product. They deserve to make more money because they've gone to the extra effort. I seriously never even see animals up on Robin's website because people are buying them before she has a chance to list them.

I will hopefully be producing my first clutch next year, and I strive to be more like the people who produce quality, and charge a little extra for it. Not because I want to make the extra money, but because I want to be proud of the animals I produce. I want to sell animals knowing that I'm sending a really good quality snake to my customers.

And I hope I will never be responsible for lowering the price of a morph just because I'm desperate or impatient to sell.

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Originally Posted by Rat160

Do people even proofread their posts? There are some posts that I read it and still have no idea what the person was talking about due to so many errors. But on to the topic at hand. There are so many new morphs coming out daily that I highly doubt the industry is in trouble. As far as that post goes its utter rubbish. Just a guy that's upset that he can't sell his animals at a high price. Myself being a breeder just starting out I look at any business plan. If you want to sell your product you have to be cheaper. When my company is looking to have work done we take 3 bids. Whoever is cheaper takes the work. We do take into account quality but with snakes quality is in the eye of the buyer. I have bought some snakes at a fraction of big breeder prices that looked way better. When I sell my animals I will be looking at what that particular snake is going for on several sites and sell it for just under that. That's the way business works and there is no getting around it. If I want to sell I have to be cheap. Nothing against nerd but I would never buy a snake from them. Not because I don't want to but because I can't afford to. They price their snakes so high that I'm not willing to pay for the nerd name. I can't get the same quality from some guy breeding out of his basement. Just my .02

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I find the first "bold" statement to be somewhat untrue. Business plans vary for each industry; maybe you develop a phone app that does "this and that," but there is already an app doing "this and that." If your app provides the exact same services as the other app, the best way to sell your app is to sell it cheaper. This concept, however, cannot be applied universally to all industries. It just doesn't work that way. Quality, in the BP industry, will always demand higher prices (IMHO).

In my opinion, this is exactly what leads to rapid decreases in market prices. You go cheaper than the guy/gal posting before you, and the breeder posting next goes cheaper than you.

Read the article by Colin that is hotlinked in a previous post.

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Originally Posted by CapeFearConstrictors

Back in February 2011 I found a 2010 female bee advertised for $600. This wasn't a hatchling either, she was probably around 6 months old at the time. This was with a "big breeder." I just checked another big breeder's site and see females bees going for $550. Given that the one available now is maybe a month or two old and is less than half the size the 2010 was, I would say prices are staying pretty steady.

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The issue is not with big breeders. The issue lies with the majority, who are smaller scale breeders. It's unlikely to see big breeder's drop their prices that drastically, even though it eventually happens with time. Not even two years ago on kingsnake and fauna albinos were going for close to $500 for females and even some males. Now I look on there and they are selling some as cheap $300 shipped. These are nice looking animals too, not bad quality in my mind. These breeders just want them moved.

I buy for quality not for price. I usually do payment plans because I cannot pay up front. I do not mind that though, because if I buy for quality then I know the seller can be trusted from every aspect of breeding to husbandry to shipping, especially HEALTH. I have seen Clowns from I guess you can call them "basement breeders" for $800, if you want top of the line you are going to be paying anywhere from $1000 to $1500 depending on if it is reduced pattern or not. And I would rather pay the extra for that simply because I know the quality I am getting.

With that said Rat160, you are wrong in alot of aspects of what you posted. These breeders aren't selling out of the box appliances or something. They are live animals and poeple like myself are going to buy for quality and health, not your price because it is simply cheaper. 90% of my animals came from Garrick Demeyer, and that is who I intend to buy from everytime I purchase a new snake.

The prices on recessive morphs, in my mind, should always be a little higher than most co-dominant or dominant morphs. Now bare in mind you have to take into account if it is a brand new co-dominant morph or not but things like albinos and pieds make some of the coolest combos and take longer to produce. These prices should remain higher just for logics sake.