Nearing the end of guaranteed genetics. What will it mean to you?

I think you have a point OP and I think as unfortunate as it is balls will eventually go the way of corns. There really is no "high end" corn anymore and I think balls will end in that same fate. I think it will take a very long time for that to happen, probably 25 years or more to flood the hobby because the hobby isnt completely flooded with the base morphs yet obviously or you wouldn't be able to sell those and once it is flooded with the bases it then has to flood with 2 gene stuff then 3 gene and so on. So as I said I think it's a very long time off. Nonetheless, I think it is the inevitable future of the ball python.

Now on the bright side of this is the fact that the flooding of the market is what has allowed and will continue to allow us small time breeders and hobbyists to own some truly beautiful animals. I'm sure ten years ago when piebalds were selling for 15k+ they were out of reach for most of us here. Now, thanks to the flooding they are a very ownable animal and many who could never dream of the investment then can enjoy the beauty of a pied in their collection without the second mortgages to purchase it. So while the end may be somewhat bleak it sure will be a fun ride getting there :)

This isn't new water, it happens in cornsnakes all the time. And has already been happening for years in BP's, especially with BEL.

It'll be OK. You just sell them as honestly as possible, or keep them back to prove out what they are.

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Originally Posted by mechnut450

yeah it scary to think at time you goingo t have to give away the base stuff like butters/lessers and othe base guys and I am still struggling to produce the basics, it almost enought to make me want ot get out casue I never be able to sell,trade my base snakes out and i going to get overrun with the normals and othe snakes in rescues. ( almost there due to the size of my last rescue lot.)

I almost wish that there was a longer time between breeding for bps just to keep the market from being flooded.

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There's always going to be demand for the base snakes. There are always going to be new keepers coming in to the hobby who want more than just a normal. And I suspect, as more breeders are moving into combo's, the single gene animals will be lower supply, higher demand - thus pushing some of the prices back up - which is a good thing.

Even with pastels, one of the first mutations to really get into the affordable pricing for the pet owner (not the hobbiest breeder), can still demand a respectable price for the nicer examples. I sold my lemon pastel females THIS SEASON for $250 each before they even had their first shed, and the person who bought them from me told me that they would have willingly paid up to $500 each if that's what I had asked. Why? Because he's been shopping for three to four years now for pastel females that he felt were the quality he was looking for.

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Your thoughts?

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The "players" who can even afford to have to "worry" about guaranteed genetics for these multi-gene animals are very few. I think it's far too pre-mature to even speculate how this will affect the future of this hobby. We haven't even seen all the possible 2 and 3 gene combos that can be made with 60 identified base mutations. And we probably won't ever see them all in our lifetime.

The future is very bright for ball pythons and their combos. I don't see the sky falling any time soon.

I think it might open up a new market for the base morphs in a way. Prices might really fluctuate when it comes to these 15 gene animals, since we can't tell what it is, what do we go on? I figure prices will end up being based on what we know or assume the parents are, and the looks of the snake. This is where the base morphs might come in--Say you like this unknown morph mix bp, but you want to see it with a little more yellow... So now you go and buy a nice pastel or pastel mix! Now here's the exciting part for me--each clutch is going to be different. You may never get another snake that looks just like your first one that hatched. Clutches would be beautiful and full of amazing colors and patterns. I mean..having two snakes--and the potential to have 128+ DIFFERENT morphs from them? You'd never get bored!

Who knows, maybe like dogs, pure lines would increase in price(especially things like the best of the best lemon pastels, the exceptional quality single gene animals) and be almost like 'purebred' animals, since you would know exactly what you were getting!


I personally hope it encourages more breeding for good genes rather than just morph stacking with no regards to the quality of each morph. :)

I agree with JLC, I'm super excited about it.

Plus, guess what this means? Banana combos are going to be worth a lot more and plain ol bananas will start dropping in price (Already have) ... I have seen banana spinner blast at 20,000 already.

I can't WAIT to get a banana. I can't wait to hatch a dragonfly. I can't wait to make my own morph. Call it the Muffy.

Haha..

Anyway.

Breeder normals will be valuable to be proving out some genetics in these snakes though.

Has everyone forogt everything is about supply and demand? When i bought my animals in the past year i had to out bid other buyers just to get them (base morph males), sure some are great examples but when there 20 ppl asking to buy i had to bowl them over with money to get at them. Also when its down to odds on what pop out of the egg you cant just say here ive got a mojo x mojo so im getting alot of mojaves n BEL's then out of 5 eggs u get no bel, 2 mojo n 3 normal.... the lack of bel's on the market "that" year will determine their prices as well as how nice the animal looks. Sure in the near future some base morphs will drop in price and proby be all withing the 100-400$ range in about 10 years (everything but newly procuced base morphs) but thats because its hard to make alot of one base morph unless u are industrial at it or breeding that one morph exclusively.

5 gene animals look basiclly all the same to me not all but 85%. They always have lesser or butter or pastel in it, yay another yellow reduced pattern snake but hey now its worth 20k. No thanks you keep that animal ill buy bases thank you. Besides everyone keeps forgeting it takes a long long time to make a 5 gene animal so they wont be everywhere soon. 2 -3 gene animals are more varied in pattern and colour are easier to make and will still be worth 500-1500 in 10 years because unless u want to buy ur self a spider and a pastel to make yourself a bee (and have clutch mates on top of that) take 2 years waiting to breed and 1st year of breeding not get one, bet by then u really want a jigsaw tho. So in the end you will pay for the animal instead of making it unless your really into having your own collection. We pay for the breeders time they have invested in breeding and on what they get in the end, unless there is a major snake breeder in every town in North america or 50 smaller ones then id say dont worry about the prices falling and massive floods of hundreds of thousands of the same base morph on the market then your mojo will go from 350-500 to 50 bucks like a corn snake who have bigger # clutches.


Most people cant ID a 3 gene animal they produce let alone a 5. More then half of the big breeders ive seen on videos say this is cool could have this in it, then rambles off 5 names but still cant id it and these people are like jesus of the catholic church in our world and still dont know. But it still they all end up looking like a lesser pastel in the end.

There is no comparison to the ball market and corn market. With corns you get more babies and the ability to double clutch plus not to mention cornsnakes are indiginous to the unoted states so the market is no where the same as with balls. Why do you think the albino burms and albino boas tanked? Cause they produce a ton of babies in their litters versus 3 to 8 egg clutches in balls. The ball market will still survive. The market trends will change but it will still thrive

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Originally Posted by Jessica Loesch

I agree with JLC, I'm super excited about it.

Plus, guess what this means? Banana combos are going to be worth a lot more and plain ol bananas will start dropping in price (Already have) ... I have seen banana spinner blast at 20,000 already.

I can't WAIT to get a banana. I can't wait to hatch a dragonfly. I can't wait to make my own morph. Call it the Muffy.

Haha..

Anyway.

Banannas are hurting because of their reproduction issues. Just like female deserts are worthless cause they throw sluggs 95% of the time. This happened with caramels because of the kinking.

Breeder normals will be valuable to be proving out some genetics in these snakes though.

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Banannas are hurting because of their reproduction issues. Just like female deserts are worthless cause they throw sluggs 95% of the time. This happened with caramels because of the kinking.

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Originally Posted by snake lab

Banannas are hurting because of their reproduction issues. Just like female deserts are worthless cause they throw sluggs 95% of the time. This happened with caramels because of the kinking.

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"reproduction issues"

No one has confirmed this is actually an issue with bananas. Lots of males being produced now with either sex. Perhaps the odds were just really bad, but proving that probability is always unknown.

Big debate about that though, and I'm not one to talk.