Why I would NEVER do Maternal Incubation.

Sorry for the mistyping. Fat thumbs on an evo keyboard sucks hahaha

Wow!!! People, different strokes for different folks. There is no one correct way to do anything, and everyone has their own way they prefer to maintain their husbandry. If the animal is cared for properly and all the eggs hatch out healthy babies, who cares how it's done?

Also my female that is maternally incubating eats a medium ft rat every week and she looks great.

Ok guys..really. You have to stop the whole "she knows how to incubate the eggs better then I do" thing...

I would venture to say that if she was in the wild in Africa... You might be close to right... But in captivity... ABSOLUTELY NOT.

We keep our egg bearing females in cb70 tubs. That means from the furthest point to the furthest point she has about 30 inches to choose from... And keep in mind a 2,000 gram female is at Least a 12 Inch circumference while coiled around the eggs. So let's face it. Depending on the placement of the water bowl... A maternal incubating mom pretty much has to choose between the single cold spot, or the single ot spot. That's it. And lets not forget, she can't exactly move her eggs when conditions change.

Please whatever you do in this debate.. Do not suggest you are doing what is best for the female by forcing her to incubate the eggs in the forced environment you have created for her. :colbert:

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Originally Posted by wolfy-hound

From my clutches in the incubator this season, my earlier hatching eggs made huge babies, the later eggs had small babies. Perhaps I'm just skewing the grade curve.

I see so many people fussing over their snakes not eating for a couple weeks, yet they are willing to have a female that hasn't eaten regularly for about a month(while gravid) go through a further TWO MONTHS of not eating, just to have the maternal incubation?

And how exactly is a female going to "instinctively know to seek out a suitable nest site" when being kept captive? Are you allowing her to roam the wilds of africa or keeping her in a secure enclosure? She has the "choice" of "the enclosure" or.... "the enclosure". It's not as if the female can crawl out and adjust the thermostat herself.

If someone wants to try maternal incubation and doesn't mind having a female basically fast for nearly 3 full months in order to do so, fine. *I* won't ever do it, because I prefer to allow my females to eat and recover from being gravid. I fuss over the weight they lose just producing eggs, I won't add to it by refusing to incubate the eggs for her.

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They know in the same sense that they know where to go for warmth, for water, or for shelter (hide). A gravid female getting closer to her lay date will find a spot she's most comfortable in to lay her eggs. If you go to the trouble of making a nest box for her, she would likely use it. An exception to the rule would be stressed or first time moms who wind up laying eggs all over the enclosure or laying their clutch in a pile and avoiding it altogether as if they didn't know what was happening or didn't want to have anything to do with it.

Balls aren't typically spending all their time roaming the wilds of Africa, either. They are ambush predators and spend the majority of their time in abandoned burrows or dens that may provide even less space than the tubs we use in racks. The biggest difference I see between those in the wild and those living in captivity is that our snakes don't have to travel far to find water or safe basking sites. All of it is readily provided for them and most captive born animals are accustomed to our human intrusion. There are currently 6 adult female ball pythons in my collection and 3 sub-adult females. All of them are very relaxed when we are working around them in their tubs. All of our snakes are pets first and foremost and they all get handled on a regular basis. They do have a tendency to become much more defensive once eggs are in the equation, but they are very lax with me checking in on them. I would not keep a snake that was openly aggressive. I understand if you have a much larger collection it may not be easy to keep tabs on individual animals and it may be more difficult to learn that particular animal's quirks and attitude. For us, we make it a point to do so.


Ball pythons are notorious for going through periods of fasting so a skipped meal here or there isn't an issue and several skipped meals while gravid is to be expected but a brooding mom can and will eat if you offer her meals. She'll gain weight and can be ready to go again the following season.

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If you have good luck and good odds using artificial incubation methods that's great. I have had good luck and odds with maternal incubation and I have no reason to invest in or build additional incubators and incubation media to simulate what I'm already doing. I do have an incubator that could be used as a Plan B should a mother neglect or abandon her clutch but I have not had to use it for any of my ball clutches.

I am sorry quiet tempest but even the pictures you are showing to back your argument are showing more reasons why I would never even consider it. The rats you are feeding... Are they live? If so what if an egg was punctured during the strike or during the struggle? If you are feeding f/t why would you want the bacteria, urine, and feces of a rat that has been dead for months getting on the eggs? Clearly at least that much is happening. Not to mention the normal convulsions of a her swallowing the rat.. Don't think that can cause a kinked baby or at least a complication? Trust me, snakes in the wild do NOT eat WHILE coiled around the eggs!

I agree with you as far as wild ball pythons not just openly roaming the wild of Africa... But I assure you they have plenty more choices when picking Their nest then the 30 inch tub you provide... They only have two choices with you. The hot spot or the cold spot. That's it.

Most of them get fresh killed but some have a preference for live while brooding. Who's to say prey animals don't wander into the dens of African brooding moms? When they do they would most certainly either be killed and eaten or frightened away by the mother. The eggs are very hardy and protect the growing embryos. Healthy eggs aren't consumed by mold, for instance. Just reading about some of the mishaps on here it's evident that eggs are not so delicate that they can't handle a few bumps and scrapes. As for rats scratching the eggs, it hasn't happened yet and probably isn't going to. I take the same precautions to prevent my snakes being clawed or bitten - I supervise feedings and if I'm feeding live I watch to be sure claws and teeth aren't causing any harm. A good strike and coil usually ensures that the rat will die quickly and pose no threat to the snake but I watch and am ready to intervene if I think it necessary.

I've done both. IMO everybody should know how to do both or know about both ways, or else what are you really doing this for? Just money or to actually learn something? I'm doing it to learn something either way. IMO again, if you have $10,000 worth of babies or what not, you should have the greatest Incubator known to man and not try to make people feel :cens0r: for what they have to work with starting out(not saying that's happening). I'm just saying let people do what they want, were here to help them in there choices not try to push our beliefs on them.

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Originally Posted by KingPythons

IMO again, if you have $10,000 worth of babies or what not, you should have the greatest Incubator known to man and not try to make people feel :cens0r: for what they have to work with starting out(not saying that's happening). I'm just saying let people do what they want, were here to help them in there choices not try to push our beliefs on them.

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Having only read this thread (and not the one linked above), it doesn't seem like anyone's trying to PUSH one method over the other - they're just stating what works for them, and explaining why. And as a relative newbie in the breeding game, I appreciate hearing the opinions from both sides!

Personally I like artificial incubation, for all of the reasons mentioned by Mike... I've done two clutches now, one with a converted mini-fridge and one with a Little Giant (like a Hovabator), and 100% of the viable eggs have hatched perfectly. The idea of trying maternal incubation is intriguing, and since I'm not breeding anything fancy, maybe I'll try it with one clutch in the future. But it wasn't even an option this year, due to my only laying female being dangerously thin - she'd only eaten a few meals that year, and I wasn't even expecting eggs from her! So I really wanted to get her eating ASAP, and luckily she's been chowing like a pig ever since. ;)

Anyway, I just wanted to say thanks for the discussion, since it is helpful to us newbies... and while I see a few of you getting defensive, I'm not reading these comments as "my way or the highway" at all.

To those who have experience with maternal incubation, is it less time consuming? Easier? Seems like it would be more interesting and fun!