Questions for the breeders

I'm curious, how do you decide that you want to wholesale normals to a pet store? We all know the horror stories of what happens to ball pythons in bad pet stores, chains and local, so how do you go about choosing one you think will treat them well? Anyone ever have issues with this? (go back to the store to find dying/sick baby snakes of yours, etc.)

The last decent pet store near me moved locations so it's now 6 hours away, so I know that wouldn't be an option for me--The pet stores left are all terrible, I've never seen a healthy reptile in any of them(Even saw a chinese water dragon who had rubbed his front of his face off--to the bone!) Because of this I've had to think around the whole idea of wholesaling snakes. It just wouldn't feel right to send any of them to a place like that. I know when I start breeding I'm hoping to minimize normals by including visual recessive genes so I'll at least have hets/have the only normals be VERY nice quality by buying only high quality animals so they can find good homes too.

I certainly wouldn't let my normals go to a pet store that I thought took bad care of their herps. When mine do go to a pet store, it's a small reptile store that doesn't have much stock. I would say their care is about average as far as reptile stores go. I haven't ever seen any sick or neglected animals there and they do keep things clean.

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Originally Posted by purplemuffin

I'm curious, how do you decide that you want to wholesale normals to a pet store? We all know the horror stories of what happens to ball pythons in bad pet stores, chains and local, so how do you go about choosing one you think will treat them well? Anyone ever have issues with this? (go back to the store to find dying/sick baby snakes of yours, etc.)

The last decent pet store near me moved locations so it's now 6 hours away, so I know that wouldn't be an option for me--The pet stores left are all terrible, I've never seen a healthy reptile in any of them(Even saw a chinese water dragon who had rubbed his front of his face off--to the bone!) Because of this I've had to think around the whole idea of wholesaling snakes. It just wouldn't feel right to send any of them to a place like that. I know when I start breeding I'm hoping to minimize normals by including visual recessive genes so I'll at least have hets/have the only normals be VERY nice quality by buying only high quality animals so they can find good homes too.

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The pet store I am wholesaling to is a reptile specialty store not only do they have their store, they also breed a few things and do shows on a regular basis.

No matter who you sell to store or private owner their is no way you can control what will happen to the animal, you can only hope for the best or you can keep them all so you won't have to worry ;)

There are store I would not sell to but people have have met and learn to know at shows are those that have the means to sell them and those whom I chose to sell to.

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Originally Posted by purplemuffin

I'm curious, how do you decide that you want to wholesale normals to a pet store? We all know the horror stories of what happens to ball pythons in bad pet stores, chains and local, so how do you go about choosing one you think will treat them well? Anyone ever have issues with this? (go back to the store to find dying/sick baby snakes of yours, etc.)

The last decent pet store near me moved locations so it's now 6 hours away, so I know that wouldn't be an option for me--The pet stores left are all terrible, I've never seen a healthy reptile in any of them(Even saw a chinese water dragon who had rubbed his front of his face off--to the bone!) Because of this I've had to think around the whole idea of wholesaling snakes. It just wouldn't feel right to send any of them to a place like that. I know when I start breeding I'm hoping to minimize normals by including visual recessive genes so I'll at least have hets/have the only normals be VERY nice quality by buying only high quality animals so they can find good homes too.

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As most everyone else has said, I have only one pet store that I am willing to sell mine to. Their animals are kept clean and healthy, and while the store does "maintenance feed" (which I don't agree with--if I'm paying good money for your animal, it should be well-fed on a proper, timely diet), I can overlook that. There's never any stuck sheds, poo piled up, horrible incidents with thermometers stuck to snakes (yes, that happened near me at a local chain pet store). The one I sell to is privately owned and run, and the owner really does know what he's doing. He knows reptiles, and he knows how to care for them properly. In addition, I've actually heard him telling his customers the correct information for caring for a specific reptile they are buying. Granted, that's not to say that everyone listens, but at least he is making the effort. He's probably the only reptile store I'd recommend locally to others.

I wanted to clarify why I was asking about feeding frequency. I feed my breeders and holdbacks every four days but with a potential of near 100 hatchlings feeding basically twice a week that's upwards of 800 rat pinkies a month! My thought is that on the animals I plan to sell I could slow down the feed schedule somewhat to help lessen the strain of producing that many pinkies. I know some maintenance feed balls every fourteen days and I wasn't thinking that slow but every 7-10 as opposed to every four. Now I know that doesn't sound like a huge difference but assuming we hold 20 back next year (which is probably high) that leaves 80 hatchlings. Now feeding 80 hatchlings every four days is roughly 640 pinks a month. Now slow those same 80 hatchlings down to every ten days and you're down to 240 pinks a month. Major difference!

A couple things to consider is naturally I would only slow down the feeding after they had accepted the first couple meals so I know they are feeding well and it would of course be handled on a snake by snake basis but that gives you a rough idea. I just wondered if anyone else did this.

I don't breed on that level so I don't have to feed like that. I'm not sure what bigger breeders do. I do know it's quite hard to get babies to start on FT but if they take rat pinks as their first 2-3 meals, they should switch to FT immediately which would help.

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Originally Posted by Amon Ra Reptiles

I wanted to clarify why I was asking about feeding frequency. I feed my breeders and holdbacks every four days but with a potential of near 100 hatchlings feeding basically twice a week that's upwards of 800 rat pinkies a month! My thought is that on the animals I plan to sell I could slow down the feed schedule somewhat to help lessen the strain of producing that many pinkies. I know some maintenance feed balls every fourteen days and I wasn't thinking that slow but every 7-10 as opposed to every four. Now I know that doesn't sound like a huge difference but assuming we hold 20 back next year (which is probably high) that leaves 80 hatchlings. Now feeding 80 hatchlings every four days is roughly 640 pinks a month. Now slow those same 80 hatchlings down to every ten days and you're down to 240 pinks a month. Major difference!

A couple things to consider is naturally I would only slow down the feeding after they had accepted the first couple meals so I know they are feeding well and it would of course be handled on a snake by snake basis but that gives you a rough idea. I just wondered if anyone else did this.

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Sup wild man !! I can tell you one thing. Those who maintence feed their babies, have them longer. People want to purchase FAT babies !!!! Yes, the ones you have longer you'll have more invested into, but they will be very healthy and you customers will be very happy.

I'm running 75-80 adult rats and have no problem feeding my hatchlings 50+ atm. with last years holdback and this years babies the only problem I have is getting rats to med size for the breeders.

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Originally Posted by Thesnakepitt

Sup wild man !! I can tell you one thing. Those who maintence feed their babies, have them longer. People want to purchase FAT babies !!!! Yes, the ones you have longer you'll have more invested into, but they will be very healthy and you customers will be very happy.

I'm running 75-80 adult rats and have no problem feeding my hatchlings 50+ atm. with last years holdback and this years babies the only problem I have is getting rats to med size for the breeders.

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I agree. Keep in mind that baby snakes are growing much faster than adults are. Adults can be fed less frequesntly than babies, because adults are merely maintaining their weight (with the exception of breeding females, in which case they need a little extra body fat); babies are using their food intake to turn into size and weight. I don't know that I would ever go to a 10-14 day schedule for babies, but I would say that 5-7 is safe. As I said before, I feed all of my animals every 7 days (regardless of size); sometimes the adults refuse, but they're offered nonetheless. The babies I've produced have grown very well on a 7-day schedule; I am using rat pinks/fuzzies/pups, etc. however (not mice). Even if I have a picky baby that I have to get started on hopper mice, I switch them over to rat fuzzies within 2-4 feedings. Young rats will give your baby snakes more nutrients than mice do, and thus they will grow much better. I have a male spider I produced last season that was already breeder weight (800 grams) as of his being 1 year old, and he was fed appropriately sized rats from his first shed to date once per week. Remember, it's OK for babies to have a small lump in their bellies after feeding, though not as recommended for adults.

Hey Bob, that's actually my concern, I'm sure I can produce the pinks to feed em I'm just concerned about producing enough medium rats for the breeders and the last thing I want is to let my breeders miss meals for hatchlings. That's obviously counter productive.

This year was kind of an eye opener for us. We were running 25 tubs total with 5 mouse tubs 5 Asf colonies and 5 grow out tubs for weaned feeders. So only ten breeding groups of rats for 45 adults and 25 hatchlings and we had a surplus of medium rats for a while until our hatchlings all got on the ground then there was still enough for all but it has been touch and go for a while. I'm thinking that we will start to add tubs as our clutches hit the ground next spring that way they can begin producing while our eggs are cooking. I'm thinking to stay with the same amount of mice and ASFs and increase rats to 25 breeding tubs overall and hopefully that will keep us close and we can supplement with some f/t for those who will take it.

This is a great post!