I want another snake but not sure which one

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Originally Posted by rperry03

How long of an enclosure does an adult bp need? I thought I read the care sheet and indicated 20"??

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From what i understand balls can get to be 5 feet long, and a good rule of thumb is you need to have a tank long enough for them to stretch all the way out. Soooo a pretty large tank, with lots of hides, will be solid for my samson

I'm sure you've heard it before, but housing multiple animals together other than for the purpose of breeding serves only to complicate husbandry and is potentially risky. *Generally* speaking, it's better to house them separately, as they don't need company to be happy. Yes, I know some people can and do house multiple animals together, and I'm not impugning your abilities as a keeper, but I would urge you to ask yourself honestly whether the benefits outweigh the risks, especially with your plan of housing multiple species together.

Housing snakes of different species together is just flat-out stupid. If you don't have the room/money for another enclosure, don't get another snake. I would advise your friend to separate their pythons and boa immediately. Different species have different environmental parameters that need to be met. Also, housing animals together allows them to stress each other out, which leads to a whole slew of health problems. If you have your animals separated, you can prevent future disease/parasite outbreaks from spreading. And finally, boas and pythons can both get a disease (I forget what it's called) that shows little to no symptoms and, while survivable for boas, is 100% fatal in pythons.

They may "get along" (it's probably more just tolerance than actually enjoying company), but keeping them together for extended periods of time is really a bad idea. If you have them out for an hour or two and let them interact it's fine, but not 24/7.

Now that that's been said, smaller carpet pythons (I believe the smallest is Irian Jaya), blood pythons (short but HEAVY), dwarf locality boas, rainbow boas, and Dumeril's boas usually stay 5 - 7 ft, and if you're looking for even smaller, spotted and children's pythons don't usually pass 3 or 4 ft.

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Originally Posted by SpartaDog

Housing snakes of different species together is just flat-out stupid. If you don't have the room/money for another enclosure, don't get another snake. I would advise your friend to separate their pythons and boa immediately. Different species have different environmental parameters that need to be met. Also, housing animals together allows them to stress each other out, which leads to a whole slew of health problems. If you have your animals separated, you can prevent future disease/parasite outbreaks from spreading. And finally, boas and pythons can both get a disease (I forget what it's called) that shows little to no symptoms and, while survivable for boas, is 100% fatal in pythons.

They may "get along" (it's probably more just tolerance than actually enjoying company), but keeping them together for extended periods of time is really a bad idea. If you have them out for an hour or two and let them interact it's fine, but not 24/7.

Now that that's been said, smaller carpet pythons (I believe the smallest is Irian Jaya), blood pythons (short but HEAVY), dwarf locality boas, rainbow boas, and Dumeril's boas usually stay 5 - 7 ft, and if you're looking for even smaller, spotted and children's pythons don't usually pass 3 or 4 ft.

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well first of all i never considered them to be companions, that wasnt my intention nor was it stated. 2nd its called IBD, inclusion body disease, which is why you buy the snake from a reputable dealer and quarantine them..obviously. 3rd red tails and balls have the exact same husbandry needs, so there is no conflict or this wouldnt be a possibility. I think that if he has done this for 10 years straight, and they havent had health issues, and they are not picky eaters it is not a huge deal. Yes there is a possibility of the snakes idk being cannibalistic or aggressive towards each other, but that sort of stuff is easily discovered by simply putting them near each other for a length of time to see how they respond. I see this sort of tunnel vision all the time on this site, people say if you get this type of bark the snake will die, or this temp is too hot or cold.. Its a lot simpler than people make it out to be. If they have space, i think it should be fine. And they will have ample space to where they dont ever even need to come around each other if thats the case

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Originally Posted by olstyn

I'm sure you've heard it before, but housing multiple animals together other than for the purpose of breeding serves only to complicate husbandry and is potentially risky. *Generally* speaking, it's better to house them separately, as they don't need company to be happy. Yes, I know some people can and do house multiple animals together, and I'm not impugning your abilities as a keeper, but I would urge you to ask yourself honestly whether the benefits outweigh the risks, especially with your plan of housing multiple species together.

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Well with red tails and balls they have the same husbandry needs, its just red tails need lots of space to feel comfortable. Yeah if there is a reasonable risk of injury or worse i wouldnt do this, but from what i have been told and read usually its alright. If however there was any form of aggression they would have their own habitats asap because thats the responsible thing to do. Thank you for your concern and talking to me without disrespect. its appreciated.

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Originally Posted by sicilian1928

From what i understand balls can get to be 5 feet long, and a good rule of thumb is you need to have a tank long enough for them to stretch all the way out. Soooo a pretty large tank, with lots of hides, will be solid for my samson

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I have been reading that balls get stressed with big enclosures and didnt know if they like to stretch out like that.

And in no way was I starting a debate with you or your friend; i was more in awe than anything...Im not a vet, a pro, or even an experinced handler so I would have no business critisicing ;)

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Originally Posted by sicilian1928

well first of all i never considered them to be companions, that wasnt my intention nor was it stated. 2nd its called IBD, inclusion body disease, which is why you buy the snake from a reputable dealer and quarantine them..obviously. 3rd red tails and balls have the exact same husbandry needs, so there is no conflict or this wouldnt be a possibility. I think that if he has done this for 10 years straight, and they havent had health issues, and they are not picky eaters it is not a huge deal. Yes there is a possibility of the snakes idk being cannibalistic or aggressive towards each other, but that sort of stuff is easily discovered by simply putting them near each other for a length of time to see how they respond. I see this sort of tunnel vision all the time on this site, people say if you get this type of bark the snake will die, or this temp is too hot or cold.. Its a lot simpler than people make it out to be. If they have space, i think it should be fine. And they will have ample space to where they dont ever even need to come around each other if thats the case

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Of course you buy from a reputable dealer and quarantine, but still, things happen. Yes, boas and ball pythons are both pretty relaxed snakes that aren't likely to show aggression toward each other, but that's not really what I'm concerned about. Yes, boas and pythons have nearly identical husbandry requirements, but from what I'd read, you hadn't settled on a red-tailed boa (basically, that comment was aimed at housing different species together in general, not specifically at balls and RTBs). And finally, I understand that it CAN work and has been done. What I don't understand is why you would bother risking it. They would never live together in the wild, so I don't see any reason for them to in captivity.

The reason people are "tunnel-visioned" (which to me is a horrible choice of wording, I would go with "cautious") is that there have been negative consequences for people that did this in the past. Those people in turn told of their mistakes so that we could learn from it.

If I came off too aggressively in the first post, I apologize, it was not my intention. However, I'm sick and tired of people doing things like this either out of convenience, or because it CAN work (rather than it DOES work). Again, there's no guarantee their health will be compromised, but there's always that chance.

I don't think a keeper's living/wall space should ever be put above the animals' welfare.

I have to agree with SpartaDog, RTB's and Ball Python's would never come in contact in the wild, one is from Africa and the other from South America. It's not a good idea period whether your friend's snakes are doing fine or not, it doesn't make it the proper way to keep snakes. I would spend the money on another cage or just not do it, remember not every snake is the same your's could get stressed easily or not but again why take the chance????

If you're not going to listen to suggestions that housing different species together is a bad idea, why are you going to listen to suggestions for species to pick out?

If you're looking for a snake in the 6 foot range, I'd say BRBs come up a little short on average and jungle or coastal carpet pythons may come up a little longer on average, but both are great pets. I wouldn't house either with ball pythons or RTBs, even if care was identical (which it isn't).

Just because someone has done something successfully long term does not mean it is a good idea, nor does it mean that it is easy. Even if species X and species Y have been kept together successfully, it may not necessarily be true that ANY individual species X animals can be kept together with any species Y animal.

I have housed multiple animals together of the same species, and even multiple species together. I always have backup cages set up in case there are any issues and separation is needed. It's not easy, it's not simple, it's not to be done for convenience or finances. Creating multi-animal or multi-species habitats can be a fun, challenging experience, but I would't just slap a BP and a RTB in a 4 foot cage with the "right" temperatures and humidity, and with just a water dish, paper substrate and some hides, and I'm not going to recommend the same thing for any other python or boa species.

Of course if you don't want to listen to suggestions about not housing two snakes together, I'm going to suggest that maybe you should try housing your ball python with a black headed python! Their temperature needs overlap wonderfully, and BHPs are smaller than RTBs, so it should work, right? I bet that'd be fun to try!

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