Is the amount of brown pigment in Pastels really hereditary?

We have to remember that genetics isn't an exact science, there's still a lot that we don't understand.

That being said, it's possible to have a pairing of really browned out parents and get only bright hatchlings and then another pairing of really browned parents and have only browned out hatchlings. The difference would be that the protein that made the brown in the first set of parents was the effect of a different protein reaction than the browning of the second set of parents, and so the proteins created would interact differently when "added" together, if you will.

Like it was already said, both parents contribute. If you breed to a darker normal your pastels will feel the affect, if you breed to lighter normals, same thing.

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Originally Posted by Agent73

This is the female that I produced from my high contrast Pastel male and "blurry" ball. Her brother turned out nice and bright just like her dad but she came more orange as you can see in this pic http://ball-pythons.net/gallery/show...mageuser=16263
Now I'm conflicted about raising her and breeding her because I pride my BP buisness on buying and using the best breeding stock and even though she came from a high yellow dad and a high blushing mom she herself turned out darker. What do you guys think, should I risk breeding her?

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IMO give her a little time to shed and grow up. You said she's six months old? I've got a girl that is about that age and every time she sheds I'm happier and happier that I picked her up. I got her for a really decent price at the Tinley show, I was happy with her, she was a decent graziani, but now I'm totally in love with her.

It's an interesting discussion. I often get the feeling that quite a lot of the people breeding royals don't have 'normal' animal breeding backgrounds. It seems that with snake breeding people get the impression that it's just a matter of putting the right morphs together to get the result that they want without considering the quality of the individual animals. There is also the thing that the price of a python morph is a considered to be a fixed amount by most people, again without consideration of the quality of the animal for sale. OK it is accepted that certain lines of (say) pastels are superior to others but not a lot of consideration is given to how those lines were created in the first place and what they have been bred with outside of the original breeder's control. IMO a good pastel from an unknown line is better than a poor pastel from a good line and consequently worth more. One a morph is established then selective line breeding is the only way to consistently keep and raise quality. I'm sorry if this is a bit garbled but it's Sunday after celebrating my birthday last night...

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Originally Posted by yardy

It's an interesting discussion. I often get the feeling that quite a lot of the people breeding royals don't have 'normal' animal breeding backgrounds. It seems that with snake breeding people get the impression that it's just a matter of putting the right morphs together to get the result that they want without considering the quality of the individual animals. There is also the thing that the price of a python morph is a considered to be a fixed amount by most people, again without consideration of the quality of the animal for sale. OK it is accepted that certain lines of (say) pastels are superior to others but not a lot of consideration is given to how those lines were created in the first place and what they have been bred with outside of the original breeder's control. IMO a good pastel from an unknown line is better than a poor pastel from a good line and consequently worth more. One a morph is established then selective line breeding is the only way to consistently keep and raise quality. I'm sorry if this is a bit garbled but it's Sunday after celebrating my birthday last night...

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Couldn't have said it better myself.

Yup, it takes time & money to produce/purchase quality stock from which to breed a good, well know/respected lineage.

However, most folks tend to admire one breeder's animals & then purchase anothers simply because of a fluxuation in price; it does not occur to them that the youngsters they have purchased are lower in price because they are often from 'lesser' animals (i.e. inconsistent feeding; poor reproduction; lineage un-proven; poor quality colouration/pattern etc).

Nope, often the 'man in the street' considers he has himself a bargain simply because his purchase is financially cheaper - some folks never learn.

Anyway, & to the point.

The female Pastel is not an unattractive animal & it all depends on your own desire to continue working with the lineage as to your final decision re: sell / retain & breed.

However, it would be interesting to see the male sibling for comparision purposes.


Lex

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

Like it was already said, both parents contribute. If you breed to a darker normal your pastels will feel the affect, if you breed to lighter normals, same thing.




IMO give her a little time to shed and grow up. You said she's six months old? I've got a girl that is about that age and every time she sheds I'm happier and happier that I picked her up. I got her for a really decent price at the Tinley show, I was happy with her, she was a decent graziani, but now I'm totally in love with her.

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I totally agree! NERD says he doesn't like to take pics of Pastels until after 5 sheds! My female Pastel(avatar pic) is six months too and she gets better with every shed! She is a Graziani line and is my favorite in my collection!

What Judy said. Pastel brightness/cleanness is a line-bred trait, so it's genetic--but not in the Punnett squares dominant/recessive sense of the term. Clean pastels are more likely to produce clean pastel babies, but there's no statistical certainty like there is with the pastel trait itself.

If you want your pastels to CONSISTENTLY produce bright offspring, you have to produce multiple generations, and hold back the only bright/clean babies for future breeding--the more times you select for BRIGHT pastel trait from parent to offspring to grand-offspring, the better your chances of later generations of bright pastels consistently producing bright pastel babies.

This is more like what is done in dog breeding.

My female lemon got REALLY embarrassingly ugly about six months after I got her. She was well started and had had about 4 sheds or so before i even got her so she looked sooo good. Now, she about 2-3 years old and she looks pretty awesome again. I don't really consider lemons any different than other pastels since the blonde and Grazinis were also bred for specific looks , yet they have as much variety in quality as the Lemons! I just tend to like NERD line animals so lemons are one of my favs. I've seen plenty pastels from unknown lineages that look fabulous and a few are "prettier" than my gal. But she eats like a pig and is such a sweetie, I've never regretted getting her. However I do plan to cross her with BRIGHT, clean males to get as many good looking babies as I can!