Breeding a spider with a severe wobble

I have been breeding my male spider for 4 years now. He was the first bp I bought cause I wanted a bee and wanted to make it myself. I did our first year. He does wobble. The wobble in the spider gene has never bothered me. I have a lot of his babies from spiders to bees. Some wobble slight, some not at all, and some a little more. Most get better the older they get. The spider gene is my favorite to put into other morphs and always will be. You have to decide for yourself how bad the wobble is and if the animal can breed at no risk to itself.

Dude.. after watching some videos on wobbles makes my bee look like nothing!! Mine has no issues at feeding time, doesn't do the head shake, doesn't move much at all when it "wobbles" and 99% of the time he is normal. he has a slight head tlt now and then, and once in a blue moon starts looking up and goes back wards for a sec.. then straightens out and is fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlX58vxt0AU&NR=1

That was is bad! :O:O

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Originally Posted by Subdriven

Dude.. after watching some videos on wobbles makes my bee look like nothing!! Mine has no issues at feeding time, doesn't do the head shake, doesn't move much at all when it "wobbles" and 99% of the time he is normal. he has a slight head tlt now and then, and once in a blue moon starts looking up and goes back wards for a sec.. then straightens out and is fine.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlX58vxt0AU&NR=1

That was is bad! :O:O

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Yah, I saw this video a few times.. crazy stuff.. You see this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MGy4g1qJdpo funny though once it was locked on it was a direct blow..

man feeding my spider for the first time was a mess!! He wouldn't take F/T and was coming out of an RI (that he had when I bought him) so we got him a live small rat. Strike and miss and thumped his little head on the back of the tub and then started striking at anything that moved (which happened to be me) good thing I was far enough back. Charlie sits with his head tilted to the right almost always and get's a little corkscrewy when he's being held but seems to do fine when he's slithering around on a surface.

We do plan on breeding him (if he'd ever make a move on Big Momma)

See, i love spiders, but i so wish that 1 male was never discovered tbh ..... i have 0.2 spiders, 1 who is amazingly light, very high white sides, perfect example, with a MAJOR wobble. i have a wickedly dark poss het clown spider female who has 0 visible wobble at all, even when feeding (im not saying she never wobbles, just that i havnt seen it)

i wont ever breed the wobbler, she will stay here for the rest of her life, but even though my other spider has 0 wobble, im still gonna be weary of what i breed her too.

This debate will go on and on as long as spiders and their crosses exist.

All spiders wobble. All spider crosses wobble from degrees of barely noticealbe (those owners often swear that theirs do not wobble, though they do display head tilts in many photos those same owners post) to full train wrecks. It cannot be bred out, and the severity of wobble passed on is as random as the high vs. low white randomness in pieds.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

This debate will go on and on as long as spiders and their crosses exist.

All spiders wobble. All spider crosses wobble from degrees of barely noticealbe (those owners often swear that theirs do not wobble, though they do display head tilts in many photos those same owners post) to full train wrecks. It cannot be bred out, and the severity of wobble passed on is as random as the high vs. low white randomness in pieds.

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Why is this trait particular to spiders? Is it an unforeseen and unwelcome result of breeding for the morph?

I realize that some people see snakes as pets, and some as profit. I'm sure some see them as both things. But is it ever ethically justifiable to allow a species sub-type to develop neurologic deficiencies that are a direct result of breeding for profit (or vanity?)

I'm not making a moral judgment here. But if the mutations caused by selective breeding for morphological variants are causing functional disorders, shouldn't we be asking ourselves whether we are justified in continuing to perpetuate any variant that begins to develop those disorders?

Or are they, after all, just reptiles?

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Originally Posted by eracer

Why is this trait particular to spiders? Is it an unforeseen and unwelcome result of breeding for the morph?

I realize that some people see snakes as pets, and some as profit. I'm sure some see them as both things. But is it ever ethically justifiable to allow a species sub-type to develop neurologic deficiencies that are a direct result of breeding for profit (or vanity?)

I'm not making a moral judgment here. But if the mutations caused by selective breeding for morphological variants are causing functional disorders, shouldn't we be asking ourselves whether we are justified in continuing to perpetuate any variant that begins to develop those disorders?

Or are they, after all, just reptiles?

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The reason all spiders have it, is because the ONLY original wild caught animal had it. I believe NERD brought it in. It was a male. There has never been another spider found and brought into the US.

The wobble has nothing to do with inbreeding, the spider is one of the most outcrossed morphs out there because there is no visually different super form of the gene.

I currently have two spiders. One with a more severe wobble than the other. They are two sisters, so 100% related. Guess which one is the better eater? The one with the more apparent wobble and the head tilt.

These animals do thrive. Spiders have been some of the best eaters and growers in my collection (on a regular spaced diet). I choose to keep spiders because they are my favorite base morph. Looking at them makes me very happy, and especially handling them and seeing them eat and shed and grow.

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Originally Posted by eracer

Why is this trait particular to spiders? Is it an unforeseen and unwelcome result of breeding for the morph?

I realize that some people see snakes as pets, and some as profit. I'm sure some see them as both things. But is it ever ethically justifiable to allow a species sub-type to develop neurologic deficiencies that are a direct result of breeding for profit (or vanity?)

I'm not making a moral judgment here. But if the mutations caused by selective breeding for morphological variants are causing functional disorders, shouldn't we be asking ourselves whether we are justified in continuing to perpetuate any variant that begins to develop those disorders?

Or are they, after all, just reptiles?

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Just as cinderbird said, the wobble is not a result of breeding, it is just part of what makes a spider a spider.

The original spider wobbled and every spider decendent wobbles.

There will always be some who choose not to work with spiders as a result, and others of us who believe the wobble does not affect the animal's quality of life.


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i'm no breeder (nor do i have any snake breeding knowledge) but i can say that i could not knowingly breed anything that has any kind of defect.