The old debate... Affection??

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Originally Posted by kitedemon

...This is the interesting part that somewhere along they way they over come the fear that I will eat them. That I want to say trust for lack od a better term, is what is being discussed here. There is a point where my snakes no longer see me as a threat but as something else. I wish I had a word for what that is but I don't really.

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Is it "trust" if their perception shifts from you being a potential predator to simply being a big warm squishy tree they can climb on? :P I believe we become nothing more than non-threatening parts of their environment. But...I'm very happy to be that part! :yes: :D

I feel that as your snake gets more comfortable with you, it thinks of you not as a threat anymore, but as a life source. They can't eat, they can't drink, they can't live without you, and I think they seem to get that after awhile. I don't know, maybe I am crazy. :) just my opinion. I have seen the nuxzling a little bit though, my ball seems to like going through my hair, and curling up on my shoulders, but could just be forbheat. I like to think it is affection though :)

I wonder if they like watching tv because of the heat that they radiate. Mine stare at it whenever they are out, maybe they are like omg what is that huge heat blob sitting in the room.

I sometimes get the feeling that Hera likes to lick me when she is wrapped around my neck, I know she is just smelling everything but it still seems affectionate. And it tickles!

They dont show affection as they lack that ability due to small brain.

They show interest in us due to smell and warmth. If pissing them off and getting bit is affection then there ya go.

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Originally Posted by angllady2

Most of mine even give me kisses, which makes my fantasy even easier to indulge in. :P

Gale

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Mine give kisses tooooooo!! Freaks my bf out (he doesn't like them near his face).

My first bp used to bump his little face right against my lips when I'd make kissy noises.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Is it "trust" if their perception shifts from you being a potential predator to simply being a big warm squishy tree they can climb on? :P I believe we become nothing more than non-threatening parts of their environment. But...I'm very happy to be that part! :yes: :D

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Agreed, whatever changes it is the change the humans place human emotion upon them. It is hard to understand how a snake relates to the enviroment they have a sence we don't (detecting IR radiation) and one that is very very different than ours (Sturrip and anvil for vibration) They must see us as different from the couch but not as something to fear. I don't think we can place a name on it but that is the basis of a 'relationship' I have one guy that will allow me to poke around jis mouth head eyes and not be bothered. My partner cannot approch his head at all. I don't know what that is but I like it. :P

ive caught mine watching tv too!.. that is definitely it.. ive actually done little experiments like turning the "door" of his hide away from the tv.. i have my tank blacked out and my tv is at an angle so one hide has a clear view the other cant see any part of the tv.. if its night he will lay directly against the glass and watch and if its day he will move to the visible hide and watch either in it or on top of it depending on were the door is facing..

now i know the most likely explanation is its moving and making noise and hes keeping an eye on it OR he thinks its feeding time.. he thinks every noise is feeding time lol

but they unfortunately dont have emotions in my opinion.. they arent social animals and thats why they thrive in an enclosure they have completely to themselves.. even in the wild they are only together a couple times a year to mate then go back to be loners..

i want a snake with the brain of a dog lol

I don't think they feel affection for anything...including us. I just don't think they're wired to do so.

My reasoning is this: You wouldn't go around intentionally hurting people that you showed affection for unless you were mentally unstable or something like that. If, say, my rainbow boas are doing fine as I'm holding them I might falsely assume that they "like me" but then they almost invariably turn around and latch onto my hand, my arm, or some other body part.

They may tolerate us, but that's the extent of it. I've been a question several times that we've probably all heard a lot: "Why snakes?" (or a variation of it, such as "What's wrong with you???"). One of the things that I love about them is that there is no such thing as a domesticated snake...if you work with them and you screw up or do something that they don't like, you're going to pay for it.

Some are more docile than others obviously, but they haven't been in captivity long enough to be domesticated. If you're working with a snake that tolerates you and you slip up, they'll bite you just as willingly as if you're a large, scary predator in the wild.

When you approach this kind of topic, you have to first put your emotions aside and then ask yourself the question: WHY?

Now, brief disclaimer, I am not claiming to have the slightest inkling of what is happening inside that tiny brain of theirs, but I am relying on what we know about animal behavior as well about the structures of the vertebrate brain.

For a snake, or rather, a ball python in particular -- what would be the advantage of higher emotions such as love (or, rather, bonding/affection)? Animals that display this behavior are usually animals that live in herds, packs, or groups and are warm blooded (higher metabolism, more oxygen to the brain, self regulating temperatures...). Bonding is an important role in animals that live and/or travel in groups.

Snakes, along with most reptiles, are purely solitary creatures and realistically do not seem capable of any sort of higher processing. Why? Because being instinctual creatures has been what has let them survive and evolve for millions of years. There has been no need to develop the parts of the brain that control these higher emotions because there is no need for these higher emotions in their lives (and would probably just complicate them, anyway). Then, the question is debatable if their brains could develop the ways ours have due to them being cold blooded. (I have probably butchered a lot of concepts here but this is the general idea I'm trying to get across. I've already wrote a short novel it seems :P. Hopefully someone more knowledgeable and eloquent than I am can further expand on this)

So, that's how I feel about it. Does it change how I feel about them? Nooo! I still love them and I feel privileged to be able to own them and appreciate them for what they are. I'm also very glad that I am able to give them a stress free existence. There's my $1.50 on the subject ;)