disappointed in the internet community, ending this rumor right now

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Originally Posted by dr del

I'm glad you got some answers from the source though - getting the skinny from the people best placed to know is always welcome. :bow:

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I was disappointed that no one else has done this before me. I mean im a nobody as far as the reptile community goes. all the debates and what not we've had on here and no ones bothered to ask them?

and btw reread the threads (atleast resent threads) and im the one argueing we don't know anything for sure. I always through out the possiblity its not a simple gene and we can't pin point whats going on with it. could be lethal, could just only exisit in the het form for some reason we don't understand, all we could do was speculate. im not disappointed in that, we don't know what we don't know lol.

now you guys got 2nd hand info, im urge you guys to make it 1st hand info for yourselves and possibly get some more data I forgot to ask for.

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Originally Posted by loonunit

Honestly, I've never heard about the homozygous spider or homozygous pins being lethal, just difficult to tell from a single-gene snake. The pearl, though, never heard of one thriving--glad to see one that is.

(But that's a homozygous "hidden gene woma", right? That would be a completely different animal from a homozygous ordinary woma, correct?)

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yes thats a hidden gene woma, i guess the story goes, the orginal woma came first, then NERD got one, looked like a woma, they called it woma, then they saw the combo it was throwing, thought it had a hidden gene and then figured out it a completly different morph. someone want to give merit to that story?

off topic but has anyone made a homozygous woma?

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

yes thats a hidden gene woma, i guess the story goes, the original woma came first, then NERD got one, looked like a woma, they called it woma, then they saw the combo it was throwing, thought it had a hidden gene and then figured out it a completely different morph. someone want to give merit to that story?

off topic but has anyone made a homozygous woma?

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the story is right except that the HG came first iirc

and BHB has done woma x woma had homozygous womas, its not lethal and is just dominant


edit: also, a superball is a borneo short tailed python x ball python hybrid. a powerball is a super spotnose

There are threads where NERD has provided some first hand info on homozygous spider, way before your time. As I remember they said something like there had been enough spider X spider breedings without a super to prove it dominant. They seemed to discount the possibility of homozygous lethal and didn't quantify how many where "enough". When asked if they had ever proven a homozygous spider they said something like they weren’t interested enough to try. So basically just like now, not enough info yet to answer the question and end either the rumor that it's dominant or the rumor that it's lethal.

Did they say how old the pearl was?

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

possibility is the key word, the "fact" on here was homozygous spider was lethal so don't breed em together. It should of been we just don't know yet, go ahead and try it, but be warned, we don't know.

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Where did you see "don't breed them together, because it's homozygous lethal"? I've never seen that. Donna - aka Winged Wolf was the first person I ever read who claimed as fact that it was a homozygous lethal gene, and I've openly disagreed with that.

I never bought the lethal thing either. I remeber a thread a few months ago about it where I said that it was wrong that some people were claiming it as a fact. I think unless more people do the breedings and we start seeing a lot of eggs going bad during incubation, or babies failing to thrive there is really no evidence to support the theory. I think eventually know for sure. We should start seeing a lot more people pairing spider combos with other spider combos now that are getting so common. Not really even shooting for a super spider, but more just to increase your odds of hitting on 4,5,6... gene morphs. I would be surprised if nerd has not done many of these combos already to produce some of the crazy spider combos they make.

I would also be interested in knowing how old that Pearl is. Doesn't look very old to me so unless nerd has an adult laying around I am not sure we can put that one to rest yet. I just don't see any possibility that mixing another gene into the pearl could make it any more viable. It just does not make any sense, but I guess anything is possible with BP's.

I never bought it, I always believed that it was likely something similar to the Pinstripe where the homozygous form just looks like the "heterozygous" form.

I stopped posting in those threads because frankly a simple forum search will provide you with a few dozen of the exact same thread over and over and over and over again. And it gets really old stating the same opinion over and over again, with a new "know it all" trying to argue with you.

[rant]If people would use the search function for a change the post counts would be 1/2 of what they are.[/rant]

/residentknowitall

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Where did you see "don't breed them together, because it's homozygous lethal"? I've never seen that. Donna - aka Winged Wolf was the first person I ever read who claimed as fact that it was a homozygous lethal gene, and I've openly disagreed with that.

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I see it all the time, I searched "spider x spider" and heres a few threads.... both of us, always trying to clear it up also
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...pider+x+spider

this must be the post your refering to, but as you can see the OP herd it form somewhere else along with a few other people.
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...pider+x+spider

2nd post on each of these
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...pider+x+spider
http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...pider+x+spider

just search "spider x spider"

if your point is not everyone believes (believed) it to be lethal, ok mayb i should of used better wording and made myself more clear, but it was a rumor that should of ended a long time ago.

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Originally Posted by RandyRemington

There are threads where NERD has provided some first hand info on homozygous spider, way before your time. As I remember they said something like there had been enough spider X spider breedings without a super to prove it dominant. They seemed to discount the possibility of homozygous lethal and didn't quantify how many where "enough". When asked if they had ever proven a homozygous spider they said something like they weren’t interested enough to try. So basically just like now, not enough info yet to answer the question and end either the rumor that it's dominant or the rumor that it's lethal.

Did they say how old the pearl was?

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my opinion is they wern't trying to produce a homozygous, just they noticed they had one that was possible, all he told me was all spiders out of 2 clutches, i wish i asked how many eggs were in each clutch.

The pearl looked mayb a few months old, I have no idea. This pearl had no issues, its eating on its own, had 100% control over what it was doing, flicking its tounge. acting 100% normal, its not like alot of the others.

it sounded like age wasn't the issue, it was more they were so screwed up they couldn't eat

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

it was a rumor that should of ended a long time ago.

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Agreed. Pinstripe is a much younger mutation and we have already had the answer for it for a year or two. Hopefully we can get those numbers on the spider clutches and maybe know if the rumor that spider is dominant is true or not. However if the numbers don't yet support a proven homozygous spider then the homozygous lethal explanation still remains plausible. If it is homozygous lethal, it may not be possible to ever prove that.