Why aren't there a lot of burmese python morphs?

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Originally Posted by Denial

theres been a little debate if the pied is a hybrid or not. Noone is really sure yet

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As in a pied ball x burm?
I think I read something yesterday that recessive genes will actually show up in the first generation of hybrids as long as an allele isn't already there. Anyone know anything about that?
Also I feel like a pied burmball would be huge news in the the ball community.

Well you have to remember not everyone in the hobby is fond of hybrids theres actually alot of people that dislike them. And the guy that owns the pied burm doesent really know a whole lot about it. Its head is just what throws me off. It looks similar to the heads of the burm ball hybrids. If it is a pied burm then thats awesome. If its a hybrid its still awesome Its an amazing looking animal.

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Originally Posted by Denial

Well you have to remember not everyone in the hobby is fond of hybrids theres actually alot of people that dislike them. And the guy that owns the pied burm doesent really know a whole lot about it. Its head is just what throws me off. It looks similar to the heads of the burm ball hybrids. If it is a pied burm then thats awesome. If its a hybrid its still awesome Its an amazing looking animal.

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Eh, to me it looks like a normal burm's head, especially in the close up shots. I don't see any resemblance to the hybrid whatsoever. Also, the pattern looks more like broken up burm pattern than burmball. I find it more than likely the animal is 100% burm, especially considering where it is from. Doesn't seem like there is much to debate to me from what I was reading on that forum either.

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Originally Posted by Russ Lawson

Eh, to me it looks like a normal burm's head, especially in the close up shots. I don't see any resemblance to the hybrid whatsoever. Also, the pattern looks more like broken up burm pattern than burmball. I find it more than likely the animal is 100% burm, especially considering where it is from. Doesn't seem like there is much to debate to me from what I was reading on that forum either.

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I agree it makes more sense it isn't a hybrid. Balls definitely aren't native to Taiwan or Thailand(don't remember which), so that means someone would have had to breed for it. You don't accidentally breed for a pied burmball. Also I find it hard to believe that if he bought it from someone, and dust produce him it self, that they would sell it as anything other than what it actually was. Also there is a snowball's chance in hell that it is a wild caught pied burmball. My guess is it is a pied burm, that he a) hasn't breed b) hasn't had any success with breeding or c) hasn't been able to prove out.

Does anyone know if it's male or female? Could be a big reason why we don't have any.

I guess it's also possible that all of the offspring, if he tried to breed it, that all of the viable offspring were of the same sex as the piedburm.

Most burms have more of a straight arrow on top o f there hea but if you look at most burm ball hybrids the arrow flatens out just like the pieds does.

the guy that owns the snake doesnt know its history either hes not sure if it was wc or cb. Micheal cole on the other hand had a pied burm a while ago but it was a low white one. Im not sure if he still had it or not

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Originally Posted by Gibber19

I agree it makes more sense it isn't a hybrid. Balls definitely aren't native to Taiwan or Thailand(don't remember which), so that means someone would have had to breed for it. You don't accidentally breed for a pied burmball. Also I find it hard to believe that if he bought it from someone, and dust produce him it self, that they would sell it as anything other than what it actually was. Also there is a snowball's chance in hell that it is a wild caught pied burmball. My guess is it is a pied burm, that he a) hasn't breed b) hasn't had any success with breeding or c) hasn't been able to prove out.

Does anyone know if it's male or female? Could be a big reason why we don't have any.

I guess it's also possible that all of the offspring, if he tried to breed it, that all of the viable offspring were of the same sex as the piedburm.

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Originally Posted by Denial

Most burms have more of a straight arrow on top o f there hea but if you look at most burm ball hybrids the arrow flatens out just like the pieds does.

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2-shay!

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Originally Posted by Denial

the guy that owns the snake doesnt know its history either hes not sure if it was wc or cb. Micheal cole on the other hand had a pied burm a while ago but it was a low white one. Im not sure if he still had it or not

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So if there is an isolated pied gene for burms, why hasn't it been bred to the extreme like we'd all wish it was?

Sometimes its not that easy. Sometimes things go wrong. Look how long albino green anacondas have been in captivity but we still havent seen any babies yet. THings happen either they dont breed or they die or someother type of events. The first blonde burm that bob clark brought in he tried to breed for years before she died. Imi sure that who ever has the one micheal had is trying there best to prove them out. I mean look how well the pied ball did. Imagine a 16 foot one. I personally would die for such an animal

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Originally Posted by Denial

Most burms have more of a straight arrow on top o f there hea but if you look at most burm ball hybrids the arrow flatens out just like the pieds does.

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Compare the shape of the head to the shape of the burmball. It still looks 100% burm to me. The pattern isn't anywhere near as soft as the hybrid's even if the arrow doesn't come to a point. Where P. molurus bivittatus typically has blushing on the head, the burmball has solid black. I'm not saying this might not change in the hybrid, but looking at that animal without taking into consideration its mutation, I completely fail to see where one would get the idea it might have ball python in it.

As far as some recessives being reproduced in F1 hybrids, I haven't heard of this personally before, but it seems to me the only likely case for that would be where the gene in one species doesn't line up with a gene in the other species (different size or number of chromosomes). My original thinking behind this was concerning hybrids of species with different total numbers of chromosomes, and due to this having a monoploidy of certain chromosomes in the hybrid. If the person who mentioned this has any more information on the subject, particularly if this was noticed in plants, I am very interested in hearing about it.

Anyway, because the members of the genus Python (and the other python genre for that matter) seem to have pretty good luck hybridizing, I find it most likely that they are extremely similar in their genetic makeup. Because of this, I think the chance of seeing any recessives reproduce in the first generation in them would be significantly low. Considering this, I wouldn't be surprised if the gene this mutation is on is very similar to the gene the piebald mutation is on in P. regius in terms of function as well as sequence. However, my vote is still on this particular animal being 100% burm.