Woma X Woma Poll

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Originally Posted by Hypnotic Exotic

To clarify with my comment on Spiders and Pinstripes, I was not implying there is not a homozygous form, just that there isn't a super. Has a homozygous Spider been produced? Obviously the only advantage of these would be all Spider or Pinstripe offspring.

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from my knowledge the "super" spider is a lethal gene. unlike as in pinstripes, the offspring isnt homozygous.

pin x pin gives u normally looking pinstripes that - when crossed to a normal gives u 100% pinstripe offspring.

thats not the case in spiders. (as i said: to my knowledge)

but back to the woma/ hidden gene woma (or woma type2 as i call it)


could someone say something about the story with the pearls?

and 2nd- i dont think that theres superform in womas- i think it more likly will be a homozygous woma.

but i dont know someone who has produced them yet...

maybe theres something like a differnt pearl, but i dont think so...

i guess only time will tell

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

The purpose of this poll is to determine what the real story is with the genuine woma gene. If woma is co-dominant with a lethal super like HG Woma, then something should be popping out that does not survive, OR some eggs should fail to hatch.

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Nope, there doesnt have to be a snake that pops out to die or even an egg. Quite simply as with many miscarriages there is a high probability that a true lethal gene would cause death before the snake even reaches a noticeable level of development. Perhaps all those eggs that get reabsorbed or where 8 follicles are counted and 7 babies come out are animals that failed to grow.

The "lethal" combination of HG Womas, Pearls, that end up dying is most likely not due to a gene that would cause them to die before developing, and instead some gene that causes a failure to digest/notice prey/etc, hence it being said that they dont thrive. Considering that ALL genes control protein synthesis and that everything in an animal's body is thus a result of protein interaction there is any number of things going wrong.

However people seem to think that this means that the line itself could never produce a super, and since it has produced a few that actually made it as far as hatching, I have to disagree. While a color modification COULD be the culprit, there is a good chance that that isnt the case, and once again I stress that genetically diversifying the HG Womas could ultimately produce Pearls that thrive, but I wouldnt expect to see it for a few generations of NON-LINE-BREEDING, however people just love to do it :P

As for the actual Woma:

The issue with Dominant genes is that their identification is extremely tricky. Often people throw co-dom onto everything initially in hopes that it will be, but then end up not producing a super. Simply because someone hasnt produced one yet doesnt mean it isnt possible and doesnt mean it's fatal. In order to prove that something is Dominant you need to produce a homozygous individual, if no such individual is produced it's still possible that it's co-dom. However there is another issue with Dominant genes... there could be a homozygous individual under your nose. It could be sitting there and it could be not producing offspring, laying undetected potentially for it's entire life.

Personally I like the idea of breeding snakes to different morphs and making designer morphs over the too common line breeding to produce supers. When you breed out far enough you may find little things disappear, like how some normal Spider offspring get head wobble, and some spiders barely have anything. Before people assume the morph's gene itself is the culprit you have to allow enough generations of breeding to pull any genes off the same chromosome that may be responsible, because right next to the gene controlling the spider pattern morph could be another one controlling the nervous system. And crossing over isnt done to every chromosome every time, it's done randomly.

I did not think any fertilized ovum would be reabsorbed by a female--I thought that applied only to follicles that had not fully developed and been fertilized. Even if the embryo dies very early, wouldn't it still be shelled, and wind up being laid as an 'unfertilized egg'? Not a slug, but a shelled egg that just collapses in the first week.

My snakes lay some of these every year anyhow.

I have spiders, and I have personally never, ever seen a head wobble in a normal spider-sib. Wobble in spiders varies a lot within a clutch, too.

I would suspect the scant few reported cases of head-wobble in normal sibs are actually due to some other problem that caused neurological issues in some of the clutch, such as temperature spiking. Spiders are one of the more religiously out-crossed morphs.

The dominant pinstripe was proven when it sired a bunch of clutches that hatched all pins, if I remember.

My female Woma just laid 5 eggs today and she was paired with a Woma male.

The eggs look good, so now the 60 day wait to see what hatches out.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

I did not think any fertilized ovum would be reabsorbed by a female--I thought that applied only to follicles that had not fully developed and been fertilized. Even if the embryo dies very early, wouldn't it still be shelled, and wind up being laid as an 'unfertilized egg'? Not a slug, but a shelled egg that just collapses in the first week.

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I dont see why they wouldn't be reabsorbed/passed in some way, similar to the human passage of unfertilized/dead eggs. Unless, of course, egg laying species form the egg in a similar way that fruiting plants do, where one sperm hits a "shell" cell and another hits the ovum.

Some unfertilized eggs are passed unshelled, as slugs. Some are shelled, and passed. But these aren't unfertilized eggs you're talking about.

Snakes don't pass undeveloped embryos that aren't in some sort of egg. Someone who may be more of an expert than I can correct me if I am wrong, but I'm pretty darned sure they do not reabsorb anything that's been fertilized, either.

Do we have any idea how many people didn't read the instructions before answering the poll here? :P

I know, this thread is old. But since I didn't find a following post with information about the woma x woma pairings, I'm asking here. Any news about the outcome? Any more news about the wobble issue? I really like spiders, but the "wobble" keeps me off of them. I really hoped that the Womas don't have this problem...but I read more and more about that it is the same there.

The only new news about womas that I have heard is that a Hidden Gene Woma X woma can make a pearl.

Confused to say the least, how can a HGW X HGW produce a pearl and also HGW X woma produce a pearl, yet they are supposed to be different morphs?

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

The only new news about womas that I have heard is that a Hidden Gene Woma X woma can make a pearl.

Confused to say the least, how can a HGW X HGW produce a pearl and also HGW X woma produce a pearl, yet they are supposed to be different morphs?

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who made the woma hgw pearl?

ill answer you with a question, are lesser and mojave different morphs?:)