Pumas fresh out of the egg

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Very nice looking, I always thought that the puma was the european version of the champagne? Am I getting my morphs mixed up?

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http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/champagne/
i guess champs are called pumas too

this only makes me more lost :confused:

Thanks for all the comments.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

was the YB het puma as well.

No, only 2 genes in there. Het puma and yellowbelly. A het puma/yellowbelly is a puma.

Not familiar with that morph and looks like a nice project ot get into. Any info would be great. PM or here id love to know more.

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See below for history.

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Originally Posted by SlitherinSisters

Wow those are awesome! What are the genetics? A het puma to a yellow belly makes a puma?

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Thanks, see below for history.

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Originally Posted by het.pied

http://www.worldofballpythons.com/morphs/puma/

EDIT: apparently a puma is a yellowbelly pastel

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Not entirely. This is what was thought when first produced. Since that I have produced pumas and they are yellow without pastel in the mix. The pastel puma is slightly lighter with a lighter head.

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Originally Posted by MarkS

Very nice looking, I always thought that the puma was the european version of the champagne? Am I getting my morphs mixed up?

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The champagne is called the puma overseas. Amir named it, there is some confusion on that.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Yes you are, one is co dom other is recessive

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They both are codom so far.

So here is the story.

The first one was produced by Amir in 2007. He had it at the Daytona show. It was assumed the snake was a pastel super stripe. None had been produced yet and Amir had breed a citrus pastel yellowbelly to a female CH that he assumed was a spector. I had purchased a male spector from Amir in Tinley that year after Daytona. Sometime later in the year BHB produced what was known to be pastel super stripe and it looks nothing like the Puma.

I think the highway and the puma were thought to be the same until I produced a puma last year with no pastel involved in the breeding. I assumed I had purchase a spector until the Puma popped out in the clutch. The pastel puma's Amir has produced seem to be lighter with whiter heads. I don't think the puma and pastel puma have been compared side by side.

So the puma is a het puma(bad name) to a yellowbelly. Just a 2 gene morph.

I think there is also some confusion on the name. Amir named it the puma but overseas the champagne is called the puma.

The Champagne and the puma are not the same morph.

Hope that helps.

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Originally Posted by RichsBallPythons

Im in the same postion as i want some. And if thats all it takes in YB x pastel im all for it this season. But im sure its more than that.

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i know i want one too but it has to be more than pastel x yb cuz this looks way diff
http://ballpythonbreeder.com/photogr...-yellow-belly/

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Originally Posted by marshall

Thanks for all the comments.



See below for history.



Thanks, see below for history.




Not entirely. This is what was thought when first produced. Since that I have produced pumas and they are yellow without pastel in the mix. The pastel puma is slightly lighter with a lighter head.



The champagne is called the puma overseas. Amir named it, there is some confusion on that.



They both are codom so far.

So here is the story.

The first one was produced by Amir in 2007. He had it at the Daytona show. It was assumed the snake was a pastel super stripe. None had been produced yet and Amir had breed a citrus pastel yellowbelly to a female CH that he assumed was a spector. I had purchased a male spector from Amir in Tinley that year after Daytona. Sometime later in the year BHB produced what was known to be pastel super stripe and it looks nothing like the Puma.

I think the highway and the puma were thought to be the same until I produced a puma last year with no pastel involved in the breeding. I assumed I had purchase a spector until the Puma popped out in the clutch. The pastel puma's Amir has produced seem to be lighter with whiter heads. I don't think the puma and pastel puma have been compared side by side.

So the puma is a het puma(bad name) to a yellowbelly. Just a 2 gene morph.

I think there is also some confusion on the name. Amir named it the puma but overseas the champagne is called the puma.

The Champagne and the puma are not the same morph.

Hope that helps.

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so what does this het. puma look like?

I'm still confused to what a Puma is how can it be het puma if its co-dom ? Photos of the male would be nice to see, If the Puma is co-dom what is the super form ?

Hey bro... Sweet Job!! I'm interested....

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Originally Posted by Tempestas

I'm still confused to what a Puma is how can it be het puma if its co-dom ? Photos of the male would be nice to see, If the Puma is co-dom what is the super form ?

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I'm still with you. A het that is a codom, and a het when bred to a yellowbelly which is "het" for ivory, not puma, makes a puma :rolleye2:

I agree, I want to see the het puma too. Is the het puma actually just a puma and when bred to a yellow belly makes a yellow belly puma?

It's similiar to a Spector buy instead of making a super stripe it makes the puma

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Originally Posted by mdjudson

It's similiar to a Spector buy instead of making a super stripe it makes the puma

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Ok, that makes sense.

I think I've got it... Please correct me if I'm wrong.

These pumas, are a completely different mutation then what they call the puma over in europe.

These pumas, when bred to a yellow belly, can produce offspring that are similar to an ivory ball, but with a lot more color and a very pronounced stripe down the back?

Is it possible that the yellow belly, the puma and the spector could all be different alleles of the same gene somewhat similar to the differences between lessers, mojaves and mystics?

I remember when Amir posted a picture of what he was calling a pastel super stripe. I thought it was an amazing looking animal, but then when I later saw another picture of a pastel superstripe I was a little less impressed. I remember another picture that Amir posted around that time of a snake that looked like a really dark superstripe (I don't remember what he called it now, but it was pretty hot) Is it possible that this gene might have been involved with that as well?