RI approved rules effective April 2010

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Originally Posted by Seru1

But thats not the governments job even if there heart's in the right place. People shouldn't roll over and just let them encroach on our freedoms like this. Thats the problem it's


"Oh well It Could be Worse" Syndrome

You say that enough and eventually they are at your door taking your snakes. They eventually make the permits to expensive and way to hard to get effectively killing the industry. It's a tactic that works in increments.

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I can only partly agree to that. Especially depending on whats required to earn a permit to own the animal in question. I dont think its all that wrong for the government to step in if they see a growing problem of abuse and neglect thats not being handled by those providing the animals for purchase.
I like not having to apply for a permit to own my snakes, but if it ment taking a short test and maybe even paying a small annual fee in order to keep thousands more from being neglected to death, then Im ok with that.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seru1

But thats not the governments job even if there heart's in the right place. People shouldn't roll over and just let them encroach on our freedoms like this. Thats the problem it's


"Oh well It Could be Worse" Syndrome

You say that enough and eventually they are at your door taking your snakes. They eventually make the permits to expensive and way to hard to get effectively killing the industry. It's a tactic that works in increments.

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You're preaching to the chior on that one.
I'm a libertarian. :D

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Originally Posted by Sariel

I can only partly agree to that. Especially depending on whats required to earn a permit to own the animal in question. I dont think its all that wrong for the government to step in if they see a growing problem of abuse and neglect thats not being handled by those providing the animals for purchase.
I like not having to apply for a permit to own my snakes, but if it ment taking a short test and maybe even paying a small annual fee in order to keep thousands more from being neglected to death, then Im ok with that.

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I can understand you may not mind, my question it what gives the government the right?

I am definatly against animal abuse, but thats a problem a community should handle not a government. When we the people do for ourselves, things get done. When the government tries to do for us. Things get worse.

Honestly I don't have alot of money, and I hate having to bow to some worthless politician who has the IQ of a goldfish and getting some permit and paying a fee. I probably could not afford this fee. And I work hard to take good care of my animals.

Plus as with all government offices you can bet the test would make no sense, and getting the permit would take forever. And it would be hard to find out even where to get one.

Requiring permits would hurt the industry.



I don't want this to sound like an attack. Because your an individual with the right to have your own opinions. I am just passionate about this.

One question. how will the government know you have one of these permit required reptiles? If you buy a GTP, how will the government ever be able to enforce this new law?

Oh Well,
Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

One question. how will the government know you have one of these permit required reptiles? If you buy a GTP, how will the government ever be able to enforce this new law?

Oh Well,
Jim Smith

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They can't...people in MA keep monitors, chams, retics, ect with out permits and they don't get caught. Its not like people know better and can report or would report them. You'd have to be caught red handed by fish and game inorder to get introuble for it.

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Originally Posted by Brewster320

They can't...people in MA keep monitors, chams, retics, ect with out permits and they don't get caught. Its not like people know better and can report or would report them. You'd have to be caught red handed by fish and game inorder to get introuble for it.

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That's what I thought. The new law isn't worth the paper it's written on.

Jim Smith

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Originally Posted by Seru1

I can understand you may not mind, my question it what gives the government the right?

I am definatly against animal abuse, but thats a problem a community should handle not a government. When we the people do for ourselves, things get done. When the government tries to do for us. Things get worse.

Honestly I don't have alot of money, and I hate having to bow to some worthless politician who has the IQ of a goldfish and getting some permit and paying a fee. I probably could not afford this fee. And I work hard to take good care of my animals.

Plus as with all government offices you can bet the test would make no sense, and getting the permit would take forever. And it would be hard to find out even where to get one.

Requiring permits would hurt the industry.



I don't want this to sound like an attack. Because your an individual with the right to have your own opinions. I am just passionate about this.

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Oh Im not mad at all, but I do enjoy a discussion with differing points of view from time to time.

That said I agree that it should be the responsibility of the providers <breeders, middlemen, shippers, stores> to ensure that they arent simply selling living, and potentially dangerous animals to anyone ignorant soul whos misguided to buy one for whatever reason, without taking the time to be sure they can and know how to care for it properly.
but theres not, and theres so much sale going to people who shouldnt be owning these animals with little being done to moderate it. At some point I am ok with the government stepping in to handle it, since no one else will. I agree they arent always as efficient about handling problems as they should be, but in my ideal world when I say this, I envision them appointing people with knowledge of the field to decide guidelines for licensing and testing.

In a nutshell what Im trying to say is, you can only say its the communities job for so long, while the community isnt handling it.

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Originally Posted by Sariel

Oh Im not mad at all, but I do enjoy a discussion with differing points of view from time to time.

That said I agree that it should be the responsibility of the providers <breeders, middlemen, shippers, stores> to ensure that they arent simply selling living, and potentially dangerous animals to anyone ignorant soul whos misguided to buy one for whatever reason, without taking the time to be sure they can and know how to care for it properly.
but theres not, and theres so much sale going to people who shouldnt be owning these animals with little being done to moderate it. At some point I am ok with the government stepping in to handle it, since no one else will. I agree they arent always as efficient about handling problems as they should be, but in my ideal world when I say this, I envision them appointing people with knowledge of the field to decide guidelines for licensing and testing.

In a nutshell what Im trying to say is, you can only say its the communities job for so long, while the community isnt handling it.

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Your view point is pretty good but it takes some certain things under assumption.

A) Whoever is appointed to this position will likely not know squat about reptiles. He might have some people in his office or a consultant who might. Likely he'll be put there through the washington cronie Jobs program. Just another government official appointed to a do nothing position by his buddies or maybe even a lobbying group.


B) We are the community. Us here. And over at other sites, and conventions. Everyday we spread knowledge about reptile care. We are handling it but that leads me to C.


C) Nothing will ever completely stamp out the practice of people getting animals they should. Or mistreating animals. Thats a sad thing but nothing can be done to fully make that go away. We are far more effective at spreading knowledge than the government. Most people aren't monsters who mistreat snakes and other animals. Though they are out there, most people are simply ignorant.


Finally If you give the government an inch. Eventually they will want the whole thing. This is evident on multiple multiple instances throughout the 1900's with the government sticking there fingers in several private industries. Only to try to take the whole thing and subsequently make it horrible. Look at schools as a perfect example. The government honestly will never make them work. And the parents can't trust them because they are controlled by unions and radicals who are out of touch with core america. To worried about making sensitive happy kids, rather than smart useful ones.


I agree buisnesses need to take more responsibility to make sure the animals they make are getting a good home. But that again is up to us the customer. It's up to us to Support High quality Breeders like Pro Exotics, BHB, and all the other great breeders on this site.


We can't farm out problems to government. We have to take responsibility. It's up to you and me.

EDIT: 3 points for boring my text wall :banana: :P

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Seru1

Your view point is pretty good but it takes some certain things under assumption.

A) Whoever is appointed to this position will likely not know squat about reptiles. He might have some people in his office or a consultant who might. Likely he'll be put there through the washington cronie Jobs program. Just another government official appointed to a do nothing position by his buddies or maybe even a lobbying group.


B) We are the community. Us here. And over at other sites, and conventions. Everyday we spread knowledge about reptile care. We are handling it but that leads me to C.


C) Nothing will ever completely stamp out the practice of people getting animals they should. Or mistreating animals. Thats a sad thing but nothing can be done to fully make that go away. We are far more effective at spreading knowledge than the government. Most people aren't monsters who mistreat snakes and other animals. Though they are out there, most people are simply ignorant.


Finally If you give the government an inch. Eventually they will want the whole thing. This is evident on multiple multiple instances throughout the 1900's with the government sticking there fingers in several private industries. Only to try to take the whole thing and subsequently make it horrible. Look at schools as a perfect example. The government honestly will never make them work. And the parents can't trust them because they are controlled by unions and radicals who are out of touch with core america. To worried about making sensitive happy kids, rather than smart useful ones.


I agree buisnesses need to take more responsibility to make sure the animals they make are getting a good home. But that again is up to us the customer. It's up to us to Support High quality Breeders like Pro Exotics, BHB, and all the other great breeders on this site.


We can't farm out problems to government. We have to take responsibility. It's up to you and me.

EDIT: 3 points for boring my text wall :banana: :P

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LOL, not boring at all..

It is a very tough situation, and really not nearly as black and white as we are laying out here, but it would take way to much to really get into everything.
You are right that history has proven the government isnt always with our best needs in mind, and definitely that we as a community do some part in trying to spread education. We're both in agreement its not enough. I'll pretty much just let it go here and at that to refrain from flooding out the forum and continuing to hijak the thread. I'm sure Ill be receiving alittle bit of hatemail for my viewpoint anyway ;).

Good talking with you though :):gj: