Morality of Cross breeding?

I think the hybrids are great. The only issue is that there's the possibility of a seller selling one animal when it's something else. However, that's the risk when you're buying het animals, even. Just boils down to buying from a reputable breeder.

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Originally Posted by reptilebrett

I saw a pic of a Carpondro a Carpet x Green Tree cross, it was beautiful, is it wrong to cross breed species just to get something cool, any health risks?

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Wrong is in the eye of the beholder when it comes to morals.

Is it wrong to breed for albinism, known for problems with sight and issues with sunlight (in many species, not just snakes)? Is it wrong for people to breed jaguar carpet pythons or spider ball pythons, both of which are known to have neurological disorder "quirks" in their behavior? How about the caramel trait, which is linked to spinal kinking in some % of offspring?

Is it wrong to breed animals in captivity for fun? for money? because it's a cool experience?

Is it wrong to keep animals in captivity, especially non-social, non-domesticated animals such as reptiles?

I guarantee you that there are many people on both sides of the fence for all the above situations.

That's just the "moral" part of your question. You won't get a straight answer, because there is none. Here's what is more important IMO, and a more answerable part of the puzzle when determining whether or not to hybridize:

There are plenty of people who are worried about hybrids being misrepresented as pure-blooded. It has happened with corn snakes and king snakes, there are many "corn snakes" out there that are something like 1/64 king snake as well. Does it matter? To some people it does. Is the colubrid breeding hobby still going strong though? Yes, very much so. I don't believe that hybridization has ruined the colubrid breeding hobby. However, any 'harm' that was done through misrepresented hybrids is completely unfixable without starting over from wild-caught specimens. This is particularly difficult for snakes such as carpet pythons, as exporting out of Australia is illegal.

On to health problems:

This is, IMO, the most important thing to consider about hybrids. I definitely believe that breeding hybrids that have shown to have significant health problems is wrong. That is just my opinion, but I think that most people who like animals aren't exactly in favor of breeding an animal that always grows too fast and dies in agony from joint pain (one example of possible issues).

Carpondros have no health problems that I know of. In fact, all successful snake hybrids seem to be pretty freaking healthy. This is NOT the case with many mammal hybrids. The woma python x ball python seems to be a very healthy snake, as are retic x burms, burm x ball, ball x short tailed python.. The fact that python hybrids from such a diverse number of pairings of species from different continents turn out healthy is VERY surprising to me.

I do know that many of those hybrids were not easy to accomplish. Small egg clutches and low hatch rates are pretty common with attempts at snake hybridization.

It's a question of morals mainly. Most crosses get marketed as purebreds and as a direct result some species are 'mutts'. Look through the forums you'll find it comes up often.

I'm personally against them as they're usually just an attempt at getting more bang for your buck. Also the more dilute the cross becomes the more it tends to be marketed as pure, which leads to much hostility on message boards and tumult in the lives of those who like their strains of animals separate. There's also no way to guarantee that whoever you sell it to will 'do the right thing'. It's a sticky situation with no good answer. Sure some hybrids are pretty, but are they worth it in the long run?

For example I want absolutely NOTHING to do with Colombian blood in my Nicaragua boas.

I haven't been able to figure out why it's a bad thing. Like a PP said, it's not as if these animals are going to be released into the wild. We crossbreed species all the time...I don't see anyone complaining about mules!

I personally think that most hybrids are stunning. I may well consider making some myself. I'm very interested in seeing if some of the morph genes found in ball pythons can still be expressed when hybridized.

I love them. You can get the traits of 2 species in one snake. They look really cool and most are really unique. Some even happen in nature unlike some mutations we breed for. Just my 2 cents.

Lots of people do hybrids..not my thing but I have seen many of them and think they are beautiful.

I dont personaly see the hybrids as anything more "wrong" than breeding for genetic mutations. Well I retract part of that statement...... I know a Genius(sadly enough works with the local zoo) trying to cross different members of the rattlesnake family. Dont beleive anything venomous should be crossed cause who knows what the hell kind of toxin you will end up with... could get scary just my $0.02

Thanks Guys,

As far as the mutt issue, what is the difference in people buying these ridiculously expensive dogs, like puggles, who are mutts. Now in doing my research I have heard of people crossing ball pythons with carpet pythons and that is a bit odd for me as you are taking an arboreal species and mixing it with a burrowing species, what kind of habitat do you create for that? That's why carpondros work because both GTPs and Carpets are arboreal and they have been known to cross in the wild.

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Originally Posted by reptilebrett

thanks guys for the input, from what i gathered most of everyone is cool with it as long as it is with the right intentions, mainly i just wanted to try to make something different than the norm.

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No that's not really correct, I personally think that it is an abomination that should never be done as it does nothing but pollute the gene pool. I think that many people who believe as I do tend to shy away from discussions such as this because they can quickly devolve into a flamefest.

It's also not really correct to call them mutts... Dogs are all the same species no matter what breed they are, the offspring of a poodle bred to a beagle would be a mutt because they are no longer a pure breed but they are still 100% Canis familiaris In a similar way breeding a Surinam boa to a Columbian boa would produce mutts. The offspring are no longer pure bred even though they are still 100% Boa constrictors. Hybrids are a cross between different species.

Also, could somebody actually supply PROOF that carpet pythons and Green tree pythons have naturally crossed in the wild? I've heard conjecture that it COULD happen because they share some of the same range, I've never heard proof of it ACTUALLY happening.

In order for hybrids to pollute the gene pool, there has to be an unpolluted gene pool to start with. Selective breeding, morph breeding, and mingling of localities ensures that for most species, that simply isn't the case. What's a few more aberrant traits on top of all that? They're pets, not wild animals. They're not pure.