Rats Keep Dying...

All right, I'll look into some things. We're in a two person household me and my fiancee, he works all the time so I run the house really. But no one uses Bleach, not for clothing, cleaning, anything...I got a high powered steam cleaner for the reptile cages awhile back that just uses water. I don't use makeup or nail polish so I don't have nail polish at all. I use either vinegar or ammonia to mop the floors and Old English to coat the wood and seal cracks. The only cleaning supplies I use otherwise are SOS pads in the kitchen and a cheap version of Windex in the bathroom, everything else is generally a little Dawn and hot water. I actually stopped keeping the rats in aquariums lately, I've only been keeping two to three rats at a time in a cage that's open oh...let me see if I can find a picture of an example...

http://wb7.itrademarket.com/pdimage/..._habitrail.jpg

minus the little up top area I usually keep one rat or two weanlings in that one,

http://petstuffresale.com/Pet_Stuff/...entCage_lg.jpg

and I think the one I have is a little bigger but I keep two adults or three weanlings or small adults in that one.

I'm just really confused as far as environmental except the food...I mean there's thirty something mice all with the same type of setups (except they have aquariums or full wire cages) and none of them are sick and the only fatalities have been from rival mothers. All the soft furs were first time mothers so I understand some loss of babies. But other than normal deaths on those they're all healthy. I have one cage in the same room as the mice and other rodents and one in the main part of the house and both cages have fatalities pretty soon after getting them.

And, actually...Petco and Petsmart refuse to do any exchange or return on pet rats or mice. I bought my Gerbils from them, they made me sign a bunch of papers that I was buying this pet and was going to take care of it and so on, these are vets and hotlines to call stuff like that. I bought two female rats and nothing, when they died a couple days later and I tried to return them they said they couldn't do a return for them. I haven't tried Petland because that store has really gotten on my nerves lately. I went in there for the first time in one and a half years and every dog was sick and severly underweight (they looked like they had Parvo), several birds had broken wings, the ferrets were unweaned and too young, and the Leopard Geckos (four of them in one cage) looked like this:
http://www.geckoblog.com/wp-content/...weak_gecko.jpg.
I'm not sure I want to try buying rats from them, honestly simply from the conditions of other animals for sale there and rats are kept in the back where I can't inspect them before buying. If I had a camera or cell phone with me I would have taken my own pictures to come back later when the manager was in and show him/her. I used to like Petland for that reason that they're generally smaller and would buy local stuff, and I did go in with the idea of getting a couple rats but...they just kind of scared me with all the other animals.

I'll be surfing craigslist to find a breeder, lately I haven't seen many though.

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Originally Posted by bokuza

Definitely environmental.

I'd like to mention that giving a seed mix to a rat who has never had it before easily can make it hack and joke on the splinters resulting in death. Not fun.
Mice can give respiratory infection to rats. ASFs I don't know about. The amoinia from the urine builds up nastily in tanks. When rats come into new environments they already are pretty vulnerable, I suggest doing a quarantine of all new rats and housing them somewhere else for now.

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And rats can't vomit, so if they become over distended they die.

Hi,

Could it be worth trying to completely disinfect the cages you are using for the rats rather than the mild cleaners you are currently using?

Just in case it was something that came in earlier and has managed to hang around?

Is it possible it is something that is present in the mouse population but doesn't really cause them any problems but quickly affects the rats?

The quarantine idea might help you find that out if you disinfect the cages amd move them to another area. If that rats are fine there but die when introduced to the same area as the mice then you know that is probably the issue.


dr del

Quote:

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Originally Posted by dr del

Hi,

Could it be worth trying to completely disinfect the cages you are using for the rats rather than the mild cleaners you are currently using?

Just in case it was something that came in earlier and has managed to hang around?

Is it possible it is something that is present in the mouse population but doesn't really cause them any problems but quickly affects the rats?

The quarantine idea might help you find that out if you disinfect the cages amd move them to another area. If that rats are fine there but die when introduced to the same area as the mice then you know that is probably the issue.


dr del

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I agree with Dr. Del

I would recommend you go buy a small bottle of bleach and use it (Diluted of course) to completely disinfect the cages, food bowls and water bottle(s) make sure you cover every area and rinse well with hot water untill all of the bleach smell is gone and let them air dry.

Put them in a well ventillated room away from the other rodents, start again and see if that makes a difference at all.

Also I would pick one place to get rats and stick with it, it can sometimes cause problems getting rats from a bunch of different places.

Personally I think the room temps are a little high for any of the rodents you keep, I keep my facilities at 66-68 degrees due to the higher natural body temps that the rodents have, and I have had great success. If you can get them cooler I think you should.

Can you describe in more detail the symptoms and conditions of the rats when they are sick and when they die? are there any odd marks, area's of missing hair, rings around there eyes, etc...?

My rodent building hits the 90's in the summer...it is not temperature related directly...

if the tanks are in the sunlight at all...they become microwaves and will kill pretty much anything very quick.

I would never use bleach on an aquarium...it leaves a residue in most cases and of course emits gases....their urine will reactivate it...

use dish soap and plenty of water.

I work at a Petsmart, and if anyone came in with a dead rodent within 14 days or maybe even longer (at managers discresion) we would ask them about husbandry and how they are keeping the rodents. In your situation your doing most everything right, so as long as you still have the reciept and go back to the store you bought them from, they will give you your money back or an exchange.

I do believe your situation is very odd, but i agree with above posters that you should completely disenfect your enclosures and start afresh. I keep all my rats in my garage with a space heater and its always between 66-70 and my rats are doing fine. Even though most are first time mothers, they still never eat any babies or show any signs of health issues. Also i feed mine all 21% rodent block and i don't notice any problems in any of them and i have over 50 rats right now.

and you don't want to pour bleach on urine...acids and bases....


it is a neat experiment...

it emits very nasty gases, do it outside only.

Every situation is different, however I use and believe in bleach as a disinfectant and use it regularly in my facilities (Floors), water buckets/lines/valves and to clean/disinfect enclosures, I however do not use aquariums much and all enclosure cleaning occurs outside anyway, it is definately good advice to use any chemicals outside when practical.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by cardell75

Every situation is different, however I use and believe in bleach as a disinfectant and use it regularly in my facilities (Floors), water buckets/lines/valves and to clean/disinfect enclosures, I however do not use aquariums much and all enclosure cleaning occurs outside anyway, it is definately good advice to use any chemicals outside when practical.

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I'd follow Chuck's advice...He's a good man and reputable breeder of rats...Gave me many nuggets of wisdom for my anemic rat colony...And a damn nice Lesser too...