Shipping in the Winter

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Originally Posted by nbelval

I received the animals on the 31st. This is the condition I received them in...
http://picasaweb.google.com/PricklyP...K2ppZXtlsTLaA#
I thought they were dead. I noticed the males belly contract slightly while taking photos as proof that they arrived deceased, so I then warmed them up as quickly as possible. The signs of RI didn't start until the 9th. I kept their tanks at 95 in the hot end and 80 at the cool realizing that an RI may set in. The smaller female has so far been fine.
So I believe the RI set in here under my care. I do feel it wouldn't have happened though had they not been half frozen when they arrived. My vet wholeheartedly agrees and also feels they should not have been shipped at a temp below 40 degrees.
Lesson learned on my part and I will never have animals shipped to me below these temps again, but I do feel it is the shippers responsibility to ensure the safety and welfare of their animals.
I would like to wait until I go back in to the vet on thursday and find out for sure the gender of the animal (as that is now in question), and then offer the seller the chance to rectify the situation before I slander them in anyway.
I'm basically trying to collect any evidence of wrong doing on their part by a group of peers.
Oh, and yes I contacted the seller as soon as they arrived and reported the condition and I also contacted about the RI and the fact that I'd be bringing him to the vet. He asked me to keep him updated. I have not yet contacted him about the visit, since I wanted to get the fecal results and the gender double checked prior to contact. If you think I should make him aware of the RI (it was pretty obvious and he even said it sounded like an RI), as diagnosed by the vet now I will. Just thought I should have all my info straight before presenting anything to him.
If he's done nothing wrong then I don't want to berate him either. But I'm getting the impression that at the very least the heat packs were inadequate.
They too (the heat packs) were cold upon receiving the animals. After I had noticed the animals were alive I scanned one with my temp gun and the temp was 52 degrees, this was after about 10 minutes after arrival. And they had been sitting on heat pads in their tanks while I took the photos.

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Wow they didnt look to good glad they are doing better now. It looks like the seller didnt put the right heat packs in and they just got way to cold. It wouldnt have been a problem if they had put the right heat packs in. We have shipped in 25 degree weather and they arrived warm, but that was with good heat packs.

Thanks. That's kind of what I was looking for. Like I said I'm new at all this, and didn't want to go in to discuss the situation without me knowing what should have been done differently. If anyone else can confirm this or has any suggestions please let me know. I'm just getting started with ball pythons and I really don't want to burn bridges with people right off the bat!

Thanks,
Nicole

Did the shipper use hand-warmers or heat packs? I ask because hand-warmers only last a short amount of time, while heat packs last anywhere from 30 to 60 hours. The shipper also has to be careful not to tape the wrong side of the heat pack, since it is air activated. Another issue could have been the insulation. If it had cracks or pieces missing, cold air would have entered.

They were the small hand warmers. They were not taped, loose in with the newspaper.
The box looked a bit dirty, like it had been used a time or two, but I didn't notice and missing pieces or cracks in the insulation.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by nbelval

They were the small hand warmers. They were not taped, loose in with the newspaper.
The box looked a bit dirty, like it had been used a time or two, but I didn't notice and missing pieces or cracks in the insulation.

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If they were hand-warmers, then they wouldn't have kept the snakes warm enough for long. The shipper should have used heat packs taped to the top of the insulation. I have shipped, and received, many shipments successfully in winter. If you use good boxes with 3/4" insulation and proper heat packs, you should not have any problems.

i would contact the shipper immediately. it's not right that you have a vet bill, and a sick snake due to poor shipping. That is jacked up, they looked dead in those pics, i would be plenty upset with the guy you bought them from

sucks man, i recently bought a bumblebee male and he arrived the same way... now im trying to bring him back, i did keep in contact with breeder and so far he's been cool, im giving the snake till friday and if it still acting weird im gonna return it,, my snake arrived almost frozen with one heatpack, after he warmed up he was acting as if he had ibd, scary,,,, im waiting a couple days and im gonna open his tub and check....REALLY SUCKS sorry to hear you went through the same thing......ARRGGGGG

Every breeder is different but many will not ship below 30/40 degrees. If they do, the box and materials must be extra perfect in every way. Especially the heat packs. I personally would never ship below 35/40 degrees.

As for the OP and this last post before me saying they warmed up the snakes as fast as possible, this is not always the right thing to do with reptiles. Read this report by Dave Barker of VPI.. If the link doesn't work here is a quote from the report. A snake showing signs of IBD after fast warming up would be a normal reaction. They do not always come back from this but if this is what is wrong, it was preventable..

"As temperatures drop, snakes become less active. At temperatures
of 13EC (55EF), most snakes move about slowly, flick
their tongues out in slow motion, and will drink water. As
temperatures drop further, most snakes become torpid and are
unable to move or to react to stimuli.

As temperatures decrease below the point of torpor, there is
an increasing chance that when warmed up the snake will suffer
cold shock syndrome [CSS]. However, rarely are snakes killed
outright when chilled to core-body temperatures of 4–7EC
(40–45EF) for only a few hours; if the duration has been short,
most will warm up with few, if any ill effects; however, after
even a quick chill, some snakes may suffer CSS or other problems
upon warming up. At temperatures below 10EC (50EF),
pythons suffer an increasing chance of dying as the duration of
exposure to cold temperature increases.

When warmed to temperatures where activity is possible,
snakes suffering CSS will not be able to move in a coordinated
manner. They may exhibit what appear to be violent seizures if
disturbed or handled. Snakes with this condition may die within
48 hours of being warmed; if they survive past that period of
time, they likely will recover, but full recovery to normal coordinated
movement can take more than a year."

http://www.vpi.com/sites/vpi.com/fil...fCold_BCHS.pdf

I would never have someone ship a snake if it was below 40 degree's. Those poor babies. Yes, I would definitely have the shipper do something about this. They do look dead. This is just totally uncalled for.

Thanks for the info. My snakes are acting normally after being warmed up just the one had the URI (for now). It took a good half hour though to warm them up though. So, if you do get snakes half frozen, what should you do?

The seller knows I'm taking him to the vet, and I will be in touch with him tomorrow afternoon once I know the gender 100% on this animal as it looking like that may have been misrepresented as well. I realize mistakes can be made, but I bought this MALE specifically to breed this season with my female. Now with the URI, that may not be possible and it surely won't be possible if he is a SHE! LOL. It's not really funny, but its been a lot of drama from the start just in getting these snakes, so it figures!

Sorry to oceancube that you are having troubles with your bumblebee. :(