Out of the egg eating F/T.

How many times have they eaten for the breeder. How old are they? they are small...but beautiful.

I have no real experience....I know that I have bought mine when they were small and young...however they had a few meals down. If you havent asked I would ask those questions. I also would not change what they are eating since refusal at this weight could be detrimental.

Thanks for all the great information.

I emailed him with all the questions you recommended I ask plus if they had shed at least once because I already made a mistake assuming. He said they were on mice fuzzies... mice is plural, I assumed that meant they ate more than once. They were hatched 12/12/09, have eaten once and haven't shed yet. He also assumed I was experienced enough to handle hatchlings.

I told him I'd think about it and let him know by Friday. Originally I was going to pick them up at the Pomona, CA show this weekend so he gave me a great deal for a cash in hand transaction. Buy one get one free practically. Though we're both in California it's not local for me, I live 6-7 hours north of Pomona. I also told him that if he found a more competent buyer before I decided there would be no hard feelings. Sometimes it's easier having a decision made for you. I offered to pay him a little more plus shipping if he held on to them till they were established eaters. We'll see how that goes. I don't want these snakes to suffer because I'm an idiot.

Hey Michelle,

We do always agree on one thing!

CA cowgirl,

Incoming PM.

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Originally Posted by withonor

Thanks for all the great information.

I emailed him with all the questions you recommended I ask plus if they had shed at least once because I already made a mistake assuming. He said they were on mice fuzzies... mice is plural, I assumed that meant they ate more than once. They were hatched 12/12/09, have eaten once and haven't shed yet. He also assumed I was experienced enough to handle hatchlings.

I told him I'd think about it and let him know by Friday. Originally I was going to pick them up at the Pomona, CA show this weekend so he gave me a great deal for a cash in hand transaction. Buy one get one free practically. I also told him that if he found a more competent buyer before I decided there would be no hard feelings. Sometimes it's easier having a decision made for you. I offered to pay him a little more plus shipping if he held on to them till they were established eaters. We'll see how that goes. I don't want these snakes to suffer because I'm an idiot.

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People do things differently, I understand that. However, this person is obviously just thinking of a quick sale not what's best for the hatchlings. Selling them with (supposedly) one meal in them and not shed yet? Seems like it's not you that is the problem here.
Do what you want, but this deal still would have red flags for me.

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They were hatched 12/12/09, have eaten once and haven't shed yet. He also assumed I was experienced enough to handle hatchlings.

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Here is a thing or two about how hatchling are usually started than you decide whether you want to go through with the sale or not.

You start your hatchlings after their first shed (which usually happens 10 to 14 days after they hatch).

You also do not start them on fuzzy mice but on hoppers.

Thanks Deborah and Tashai.

I get the impression that he is going to sell these snakes as soon as possible. He did not breed them himself, but obtained them from another breeder and he told me who that was but I don't want to possibly slight their name with this discussion. We've had good communication, I've gotten four emails from him in two days.

I worry that if I don't get them that someone who is even less knowledgable than me or less willing to ask questions will get them and the snakes will suffer more.

Can I go back to being ignorant of the situation? Nope. Is it worth intervening?

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Originally Posted by withonor

Thanks Deborah and Tashai.

I get the impression that he is going to sell these snakes as soon as possible. He did not breed them himself, but obtained them from another breeder and he told me who that was but I don't want to possibly slight their name with this discussion. We've had good communication, I've gotten four emails from him in two days.

I worry that if I don't get them that someone who is even less knowledgable than me or less willing to ask questions will get them and the snakes will suffer more.

Can I go back to being ignorant of the situation? Nope. Is it worth intervening?

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this will only make him think he doing somethign right an repeat the process again. I findign a lot f people that one snakes this time of year ( specially) breeder size are only gongio t breed them then get rid of the adults later on to keep cost down. ( one reason I hate to adopt out adult animals once i get them in shape cause I afaird that what will happen ) I wish ther was a contracted clause that required he parent of any animal being sold has to be on site of the seller for x years. this would hopefully help with some animals being kept in proper health since each genreation would add to the x time frame to the animal . plus the breeder would have healthy animals since they be careing for them properly as they would allow for more possible breeding.

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Originally Posted by mechnut450

this will only make him think he doing somethign right an repeat the process again. I findign a lot f people that one snakes this time of year ( specially) breeder size are only gongio t breed them then get rid of the adults later on to keep cost down. ( one reason I hate to adopt out adult animals once i get them in shape cause I afaird that what will happen ) I wish ther was a contracted clause that required he parent of any animal being sold has to be on site of the seller for x years. this would hopefully help with some animals being kept in proper health since each genreation would add to the x time frame to the animal . plus the breeder would have healthy animals since they be careing for them properly as they would allow for more possible breeding.

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I've already expressed my discomfort with the situation to him. He has had some potential buyers from the east coast but can't ship there because of temperatures. I think he understands the situation because he also told me that he may not deal with ball pythons much longer.

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Originally Posted by withonor

Thanks Deborah and Tashai.

I get the impression that he is going to sell these snakes as soon as possible. He did not breed them himself, but obtained them from another breeder and he told me who that was but I don't want to possibly slight their name with this discussion. We've had good communication, I've gotten four emails from him in two days.

I worry that if I don't get them that someone who is even less knowledgable than me or less willing to ask questions will get them and the snakes will suffer more.

Can I go back to being ignorant of the situation? Nope. Is it worth intervening?

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I think you are right. He'll probably sell them soon, probably at the Pomona show. I'm modestly intelligent and modestly knowledgeable... and I bought two young snakes not knowing better. My snakes have been taken care of (after a vet visit and $$) and are fine. But really, don't work yourself up about the little animals' futures. A lot of the reptiles sold at pet shops, reptile shows are less than perfectly maintained once sold.

Be strong, you'll land a good deal on exactly what you want. Its these sorely tempting spectacular deals you might want to be leery of. :)

Run, do not walk, away from this deal. Unless you feel VERY comfortable trying to get these guys to eat. I would NEVER sell a snake until it's at least 80 grams. Usually, once they eat 5-6 times, mine are at least 80-100 grams.

Too many things sound fishy to me. He may be a flipper, or he's got some snakes that aren't eating for him. I bought a male Albino that was only 56 grams when I got him. However the breeder told me he was having trouble getting it to eat. I bought it at a discount KNOWING this snake was not eating. In my opinion, this is a really big difference. I took the chance, I knew the story, I made a decision on the facts, not on the word of someone I really don't know or trust.

BTW, the Albino is now at 540 grams and is still a little finicky eater. He only eats live and I have not been able to get him to eat pre-killed or F/T. He was a real challenge.

Unless you're willing to go through a lot of issues and among them, losing the snakes, I think I'd pass on the snakes.

Remember, a 2 for the price of 1 is a great deal, unless both snakes die, then it's money wasted.

Good Luck!
Jim Smith

Jim, you put into words many of the thoughts that have gone through my head several times.

After much deliberation and deep inner turmoil, I have decided that the only reason I am hung up on this is because of the price, not the snakes themselves. So I'm not going to take them in the condition they are in. No reply yet if he'll establish them a little better so I can buy them with more confidence.

Luck is not something I would depend on in this situation.