It's breeding time, not eating time

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Originally Posted by muddoc

That may be some of the worst advice I have seen in the Ball Python section. Ball Pythons do not brumate. They are from a near equatorial zone, and brumating them would be about the worst thing you could do, as you could potential create an environment that is very condusive to Respiratory Infections.

With that said, the beginning of your statement says to drop 5 degrees. That would probably not hurt the animal, but if there is no intention to breed it, there is no reason to do that either. As far as brumation goes though, I typically lower my colubrids by about 15 to 20 degrees. Also, if someone was to brumate an animal, there is a bit more preparatory work that would be necessary (such as ceasing feeding about three weeks prior to cooling the snakes, to ensure that they have expelled all waste and have digested all food, so that they would not have food rotting in there stomach due to a lack of heat for digestion).

Please make sure that you understand what you are recommending to someone that is asking for help before you make suggestions that are not correct and could potentially cause more grief.

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That's correct, if we were talking about colubrids, which we're not. This is the correct way to cool down Ball Pythons. I didn't say she had to. We're not talking bout a true colubrid brumation, but it's what the owner can do if they want to. I've bred a lot of Ball Pythons and your telling me what to do. I've been doing this full time for over 15 years, then took a few years off and I'm now building my collection back up.

By your own admission you have said a five degree temp drop will not cause belly rot, so where is my information wrong. Since there's no chance of belly rot, why stop feed 3 weeks before you drop the temp? So, the owner doesn't have to worry about that. We're just trying to get the snake to slow down. So where have I led her wrong? It seems you got stuck on my use of the term brumation. Well, I may have used the wrong term, but what else do you call it, cool down? You don't have to do anything that I've said to get Ball Pythons to mate, but this is the way I've done it for years. It doesn't hurt the snake, it does calm the snake for a few months.

I have a question to ask you. If a snake goes off its food all winter long (like many Ball Pythons are prone to do), what is better for their metabolism (a slightly cooler enclosure (where they don't use as much energy) or regular temps (where their metabolism continues at regular levels)? Who's doing more harm?

You tell me!
Jim Smith

As much as I appreciate all the input, I didn't intend this to be an argument.
I was thinking her behavior was all stress related from my environment at school, hence the consideration to adopt her out.

But, if this is normal (and is it?) since this is the first winter she's been of breeding size, then I can hold my current course.

On a side note, this forum is a great place to learn snake information as I did all summer, but the experience can be ruined by having these petty arguments in each thread. I used to frequent the forums, but now I just pop in when I need help because it seems like everyone goes off on one another at the slightest thing.

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Originally Posted by j_h_smith

That's correct, if we were talking about colubrids, which we're not. This is the correct way to cool down Ball Pythons. I didn't say she had to. We're not talking bout a true colubrid brumation, but it's what the owner can do if they want to. I've bred a lot of Ball Pythons and your telling me what to do. I've been doing this full time for over 15 years, then took a few years off and I'm now building my collection back up.

By your own admission you have said a five degree temp drop will not cause belly rot, so where is my information wrong. Since there's no chance of belly rot, why stop feed 3 weeks before you drop the temp? So, the owner doesn't have to worry about that. We're just trying to get the snake to slow down. So where have I led her wrong? It seems you got stuck on my use of the term brumation. Well, I may have used the wrong term, but what else do you call it, cool down? You don't have to do anything that I've said to get Ball Pythons to mate, but this is the way I've done it for years. It doesn't hurt the snake, it does calm the snake for a few months.

I have a question to ask you. If a snake goes off its food all winter long (like many Ball Pythons are prone to do), what is better for their metabolism (a slightly cooler enclosure (where they don't use as much energy) or regular temps (where their metabolism continues at regular levels)? Who's doing more harm?

You tell me!
Jim Smith

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A. We are not talking about colubrids.
B. If you have been doing this for 15 years, I would have thought you had the terminology down by now.
C. I never stated anything about Belly Rot in my post. But when I brumate colubrids, as with everyone els I know that does it, they allow the animal to clear out the digestive system prior to cooling. I have heard of problems from people who haven't done that, but I have never heard of a problem from people that do.
D. My problem with the use of the term brumation in this post is that if a long time colubrid breeder read the post you just made, they may think that brumation is what is necessary for Ball Pythons. Brumation is typically more drastic than a 5 degree temp drop. As I stated, I brumate at a 15-20 degree temp drop, and I know people that cool there corn snakes as much as 40 degrees. Other species that brumate such as Diamond Pythons also need to be cooled to the 55 degree range (which would severely harm a Ball Python).
E. In regards to your last paragraph: haed you read the entire post, the original poster is not attempting to breed her snake. Matter of fact, it would be difficult to do with only one Ball Python. I personally would suggest exactly what I did, since Ball Pythons are known to fast during breeding months. If you want a snake that eats year around, then I would suggest a Boa or an Angolan Python.
F. Lastly, In the wild, who is dropping the temp on the thermostat to the termite mound. If you look at temps along the Ivory Coast, there is very little variation throughout the year. As well as the fact that they live in well insulated burrows that don't fluctuate much. If you are not attempting to breed a Ball Python, then there is no need to adjust temperatures. Matter of fact, I have barely touched temps at all this year while I am breeding.

I hope I answered all of your questions,

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Originally Posted by mrshawt

But, if this is normal (and is it?) since this is the first winter she's been of breeding size, then I can hold my current course. I used to frequent the forums, but now I just pop in when I need help because it seems like everyone goes off on one another at the slightest thing.

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Hey, I've missed seeing you around. I'm here less too, but for different reasons. I'm also facing our first winter with a snake and so am unsure of things. They aren't as easy "beginner" snakes as I'd read them to be.

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Originally Posted by Patricia

Hey, I've missed seeing you around. I'm here less too, but for different reasons. I'm also facing our first winter with a snake and so am unsure of things. They aren't as easy "beginner" snakes as I'd read them to be.

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Yeah, but at least we're saving on weekly meals!
It's reassuring to hear that this is normal mating activity. I can stick it out much easier as long as I leave her alone. She's gotten a little better now ever since I put a crumpled up piece of newspaper in her hide. She likes wearing it. :P