Did I say "Adventure"??? (A question for experienced Giant Handlers)

I know she's not a giant, but my common boa Sonja is a good 8.5ft now. I never deal with her without someone else around. She weighs about 27lbs and is all muscle.

When I clean her enclosure, I always take her out and put her in a pillowcase. It's just safer for me and less stressful for the snake.

I've also found that rabbits, the 3.5-4lber size, keep her full for at least 3 weeks. They don't leave a big lump, just a nice thickening in her belly. When she was on rats years ago, it would take at least 4-6 large rats and then a week later she would be hungry again. I think you'll definitely see a big improvement when on the rabbits. Not to mention it will be less expensive, haha.

I would also see about getting a new enclosure or putting it lower to the ground so it's more easily accessible. Being on a stepladder and leaning over into a tank just doesn't sound safe.

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Originally Posted by Shawn

I have a couple questions for you Judy , if you dont mind?

1-- how old is this burm
2-- how often has it been handled
3-- is there any way of rearanging the cage to have a door on the side or back/front.
4-- when you reach in the cage can you see the activity of the burm? IMO the most important thing of all.

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Don't mind the questions at all...

1-- I don't know, but I do know that two years ago, she was measured by a vet as 6' long. Now, two years later, we're guessing she's about 7.5' or so...definitely not as big as I believe she should be by now, had she been fed appropriately.

2-- There was one volunteer that worked well with her and he would handle her a couple times a week...but he can't work there anymore due to his own busy schedule. She's been taken out for demonstrations to groups and such...and it seems like once she's out of her enclosure she's very calm. But I don't think she's been handled regularly at all, at least over the last couple of years.

3-- The only way to rearrange her enclosure is to rebuild it from scratch, basically. I DO plan on working on a new enclosure that will be the right size for her when she grows bigger...and I'll try to include a side-opening door on that one. But that's a long-term project that won't be easily accomplished.

4-- When I'm above the cage looking in, I can see her completely. So it's possible to watch her to safely gauge when/how to pick her up or whatever...but I know now that I don't dare take my eyes off her to clean a corner or something.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

It's not frequency of feeding, it's amount fed.

At that size all they want to do is eat. Switching to a weekly rabbit feeding, even every 10 days for the next few feet of growth will help mellow the snake out, providing it's just not one of the few who are simply mean.

Be sure to tickle her with something before you clean from now on and watch her eyes before you start. They move and you can read them, eventually.

You'll be laughing heartily soon.

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That's encouraging to hear about the rabbits. And despite my feelings of feebleness with the hook, I DO plan on continuing to use to to alert her to my presence and condition her to being ready to be taken out of her enclosure.

And I'm almost able to grin about it now. :P

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Originally Posted by SatanicIntention

I know she's not a giant, but my common boa Sonja is a good 8.5ft now. I never deal with her without someone else around. She weighs about 27lbs and is all muscle.

When I clean her enclosure, I always take her out and put her in a pillowcase. It's just safer for me and less stressful for the snake.

I've also found that rabbits, the 3.5-4lber size, keep her full for at least 3 weeks. They don't leave a big lump, just a nice thickening in her belly. When she was on rats years ago, it would take at least 4-6 large rats and then a week later she would be hungry again. I think you'll definitely see a big improvement when on the rabbits. Not to mention it will be less expensive, haha.

I would also see about getting a new enclosure or putting it lower to the ground so it's more easily accessible. Being on a stepladder and leaning over into a tank just doesn't sound safe.

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Thanks, Becky! I remember Sonja...she is definitely bigger and much heavier than Butterscotch is right now. Even when I held her that one time a couple years ago, she may not have been as long, but she was still heavier than Butterscotch is today.

There's no way to get a new enclosure or move the current one...it's built into the building as part of a reptile display house. It's all solid wood except for the front viewing glass and the screened top panels.

I'll try to get pictures of it this weekend. Before I'm done with my time there as a volunteer, I'd like that snake house to be MUCH more "user friendly" for whoever the next keeper may be.

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Originally Posted by rabernet

Judy :hug:

It was not funny at all when you called me last night to tell me about this, but reading it now, I did giggle a bit, simply because you're a wonderful story teller, and you put me right there with you. It's one of those you can laugh now about it situations. Although I know that your hand is still very painful for you.

You earn major kudo's for being determined to be there for this girl when so many other's haven't.

Can't offer you any advice about working with the giants, though it looks like Wes has already given you some good pointers!

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Awww...thanks, Robin! :hug: You can laugh now. :P

I'm glad you can grin a lil about it now, Judy. That's a much bigger bite then you're used to! I'm glad it worked out ok, and it seems like you're getting some solid advice here. You handled it better than I would. Shawn can vouch that I'm a big wuss when it comes to certain large snakes;)

It sounds like she isnt an overlly aggressive snake and that it was more then likely a simple feeding response. My best advice to this is to simply hook train the animal. I feed my animals every week from small rats all the way up to 6 pound rabbits and a burmese python is basically a garbage disposal. I could feed mine a 3 pound rabbit on friday and saturday hes still looking for more food. So I have hook trained all my animals and I simply tap there heads with the hook as soon as I open there enclosures and then I reach in and pull them out. If I was to just stick my hand in there without letting them see the hook I would more then likely get nailed.

As far as getting them off you when the strike and bite down Ive tried all kinds of things and I think the one that worked the least was pulling the tail! lol All that did with me was piss the snake off even more. But I always have a spray bottle full of listerine with me whenever im handling or doing simple cage cleanings. And if any ever latch on I spray it right in there mouth and they release instantly! And ive done this with snakes and monitors and it works great with both. Monitors tend to like to chew on you and it is not pleasant. But listerine has never once failed me.

Good luck judy! Dont give up on her you guys will learn to read each other after time.

Thanks for the "Adventure"!

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is the location of the enclosure itself. Is it in a "strictly reptile" location, or is there other enclosures around that will put the "food scent" in the area? If there are other animals housed in the same area you are in for an uphill battle for sure.

7.5 feet and probably 3 years old. And it's a female. Ouch! No wonder she's looking for food. From your description, however, she seems to be normally tractable... get her used to your scent as being non-threatening as much as possible. She'll get to know you and that you are not a threat, nor something to eat.

If you know how to read ball pythons (like Wes mentioned), then these guys are pretty much the same. You can tell when they are wondering if you're edible.

Good luck! Stick with it!

Chris

Thanks, guys! I'll probably end up with a bottle of alcohol AND Listerine... LOL Never hurts to have a back-up plan.

Chris, there had been some live rats stored in the snake house, but I fed off the last of those this past Sunday. (From now on, she'll be on frozen rabbits) Other than those old rats, the closest things she might smell are a tiger and some bears. LOL And even those warm-blooded mammal scents aren't all that close.

I'm feeling a lot better today...the hand is still very tender and swollen, but the swelling has gone down a lot. I've got full motion in all my fingers...no serious damage done. Mostly though, I'm feeling mentally and emotionally better...and am already looking forward to getting back in there and making sure she is OK. :D

Glad to hear your ok and doing better!

The largest I have worked with regularly is 9ft though as time goes on that will probably change.
Lesson #1 is probably the most important, Even with my own animals that I know well I want someone close in case something happens. Interestingly the big snakes never go after me, they always seem to bite the guys and they are the female snakes most often too. We used to have a boa in the lab that would bite the guys when she was ovulating but never got me.Even though I have been lucky I have seen what they can do and I always want help around in case something does go wrong.
The step ladder is a bit unsteady, is there anyway to build something to go in front so you are on a larger surface and can maneuver easier. If she were to strike again and you move to avoid her it would be really easy to lose your balance.
The important thing is this time nothing too serious happened and you have learned some important lessons. I hope it heals fast.
The others have pretty much covered all the good points so I would just be repeating them but I am glad to hear you are sticking with it and not giving up.

Judy why is the only way to access her enclosure from above? I think they need to redo her enclosure for your safety and hers.If she is not used to much interaction with humans other then just feeding time it will take her time to adjust to you and your presence on a daily basis.Now be carefull from now on we need you around here lol :P