Sable & Choclates...

OK ... I'll ask the n00b question ;)

I can see the difference between chocolates and regular "blackbacks" when plugged into other combos -- and of course, the chocolates have a really neato homozygous "super" form. So, I can see how they are a genuine morph and a neat BP to have around.

I cannot, however, really pick out the difference between a heterozygous chocolate and a "normal" blackback BP. The only trait I can really see (aside from the brown/black back, of course) is that their "alien heads" on the side seem quite distinct. Is there anything else that can be used to pick them out of a crowd (a la the distinct features of yellowbellies, which I still have yet to master), or is it just something where you have to get one from a proven line?

Also, FWIW, I think the chocolates look very different from the sables from the photographs I've seen. The sables seem to have a much busier pattern with a very "granite" look to it, while the chocolates' pattern seems to be much cleaner, with a more distinct black back.

Of course, whether they are somehow genetically related remains to be seen ...

I personally believe they are the same mutation. As others have stated, I think they can be compared to the similarities between Lessers and Butters and Cinnys and Black Pastels. I will say that in about a week, I will post a pic of a snake that I have in the egg right now that helps me to see the similarities.

me and muddoc have had this debate before, and im still leaning towards the side of them being different, but different in the way a black and cinnamon pastel are, they both have simalar supers but i still think the het form definitly look different enough to tell them apart, i just like the chocolates better!!!

While there are similarities, to me, the heterozygous forms look different. I haven't seen enough super chocolates in person to make a definitive call on the homozygous forms. The couple that I have seen closely resemble the super sables....maybe more so than the het forms resemble each other.
But based on the heterozygous phenotypes, I'd say they are different morphs. I wouldn't be surprised to see them prove to be alleles though. "Different flavors of the same mutation."

Here are a couple of recent sable pics (not the most vibrant - he looks like he is going to start a shed cycle soon):
http://www.joecompelreptiles.com/ima...ults/sable.jpg
http://www.joecompelreptiles.com/ima...e_headshot.jpg

Does anyone on the board (with chocolates in their collection) think these look like chocolates?
I'll post a super sable pic once he sheds. Anyone else with super sables? (or super chocolates for that matter)

Well here's a couple of my chocolates for comparison. No supers yet. Here's a belly shot too.

http://img210.imageshack.us/img210/2954/dscn5174.jpg

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/2703/dscn5177.jpg

later
Jordan