OK I keep getting flack for keeping my snakes in a rack system

Thanks for taking the time to educate me! I could definitely tell that our bp was stressed based on what appeared to be increased ANS activity when we handled her. I would expect handling could elicit a conditioned fear response but also that extinction would occur after repeated handling without causing harm. I failed to consider that human handling is the unconditioned stimulus and not a "context". I appreciate your input.

Holy crapes! I was expecting the book to be around 100, maybe 150, but $275? Goodness me. I'd much rather have the actual book, but the google e-book for $119 is very alluring... heh. Definitely on my wish list though!

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

I used to have a link to a forum of a small group of aficionados who were dedicated to providing their herps with some of the most realistic environments you have ever seen. Complete climate controlled, simulating light and season/weather cycles with live plants and live substrates. I sold a pair of olfersii to a member and he sent me the link. I'll have to look it up and post it.

I sheepishly admit to being a user of the plebeian tub for some of my animals and looking at these beautiful and complicated environments was very inspiring.

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If you could find that link, that would be great. That sounds like an extremely elaborate set up. I'm rather interested in the artificial weather cycle.

While I was half joking, a set up like how I described(minus wildebeests) would still be neat. I'm also curious to see how a number of ball pythons do in a colonial setting with loose breeding prey in naturalistic room habitat.

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My very first ball python enclosure was a 30 gallon glass aquarium that was planted with live plants. This came to an end a few months later when I discovered wood mites in the dirt which freaked my husband out to no end (he hates bugs).

The ball python was around 250 grams. Every night he would come out and cruise around in the tank, over and around the plants. I was a newbie keeper and it's possible I was neglecting some part of essential husbandry that he was looking for. It's also possible that he was exploring, and/or feeling stressed. He never went off feed and he was healthy for as long as I owned him.

I don't believe that snakes need mental stimulation. They lack the physical parts of the brain that account for emotions and reasoning abilities. However, perhaps a natural enclosure provides room for them to exercise physically. Exercise is good for every animal.

For the casual owner, perhaps a natural vivarium is the best choice, as it can be very enjoyable to watch a snake interact with its environment.

For a breeder, some sacrifices must be made to run an efficient business. Cost versus profit and all that. Tubs are adequate for ball pythons, and easier to maintain for the keeper.

That doesn't mean that breeders are bad people, or that they are bad animal caretakers. It just means they have different priorities than keepers who want to enjoy their snakes in a natural setting.

Crotalids, you need to utilize some social skills if you don't want people to reject your ideas out of hand because of your attitude.

I'm feeling a little left out with this whole hijacking thing so I just want add, since "tupperware" was brought up, that tupperware TOTALLY ROCKS!

Seriously! What ever happened to that stuff? I'd totally use tupperware tubs over sterilite, rubbermaid, and whatever else we use if tupperware was available in stores and made tubs like that. I bet they would be awesome for snake tubs!

;)

I have kept snakes in both aquariums, vivariums what ever you want to call them and tubs. It is way easier to keep stable temps and humidity in a tub than it is in a glass box. The evidence is clear too, the feeding response of most snakes is much better in tubs than in tanks. My snakes seem happy and unstressed, thats all the proof I need.

I keep my guys in tubs except my corn snake he's in a tank cause otherwise I feel he gets a little too cozy. I handle my snakes every day, I only have 5 and they have not changed in personality. If anything they really seemed to be a whole lot more relaxed. I originally got a normal poss het axanthic, pastel, and granite all in one tank. This woman said her land lord asked to get rid of some because she had too many. Boy was the land lord right. But anywho I took them in and they had no humidity, no water, one hide, no heat and all horrible sheds and worse tempers. I left them together for a few months while I waited for my rack system and got their health back up to snuff ( one had some mouth rot and they all were showing signs of heavy breathing). Once seperated they all relaxed a lot more and are all doing great. Always eat always happy. :)

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Originally Posted by Crotalids

No one seems to be willing to show their spacious racking set ups though..

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Here's one of the tubs I use for my smallest ball python. I did have her in a tank for awhile, but I found it very hard to hold in humidity and heat. So, I moved her into a rack system. Because she's small and really, this tub is too big for her, I did add a little clutter to her enclosure. I also use newspaper and I've also never had a mite infestation or any other health concern. I used to use aspen, but I found that it was easier to clean with newspaper. If the cage was dirty, I cleaned it. I didn't have to worry about some urine to go undetected for days on end. All my animals eat on their scheduled feeding day and see to be functioning normally. If you can look in the far coconut hut, she's curled inside her hide on the warm side because she finished a rat pup within the hour. The water bowl DOES have water in it. Because I change my water daily, I don't usually fill the bowl full.

http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/7746/img05721.jpg

Really?? 10 pages over tanks to tubs?!?! I would have just stopped feeding this guy the attention he wanted by just saying "you do what you want and I'll do what I want!!".


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Originally Posted by hypnotixdmp

Really?? 10 pages over tanks to tubs?!?! I would have just stopped feeding this guy the attention he wanted by just saying "you do what you want and I'll do what I want!!".


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And yet, you didn't.

Grab the shovel from Mike and start following the Heffalumps.