Kalatoa 100% Pure SD Retic Progression (Pic heavy...)

Yeah that sucks. I know you tried pretty much everything and i i thought you said you transported Phyllis in a christmas tree tub when you moved. If so, have you tried just keeping her in there for a few days to see if the change of material/caging causes her to stop pushing?

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Yeah that sucks. I know you tried pretty much everything and i i thought you said you transported Phyllis in a christmas tree tub when you moved. If so, have you tried just keeping her in there for a few days to see if the change of material/caging causes her to stop pushing?

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I’ve only got 100qt hefty tubs from Lowe’s. They’re like half the size of a Christmas tree tub. Could order one from iris and try it I guess. I did have her in a T8 for a couple days with no success.
Kinda loosing confidence in the ability of any theoretical solution to change her behavior at this point though. I know that sounds pretty defeatist but this animal is becoming more burden than I can handle in my life. Most big dogs aren’t even this much work and frustration.


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Originally Posted by jmcrook

I’ve only got 100qt hefty tubs from Lowe’s. They’re like half the size of a Christmas tree tub. Could order one from iris and try it I guess. I did have her in a T8 for a couple days with no success.
Kinda loosing confidence in the ability of any theoretical solution to change her behavior at this point though. I know that sounds pretty defeatist but this animal is becoming more burden than I can handle in my life. Most big dogs aren’t even this much work and frustration.


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Well trying a christmas tree tub just to see if the change in cage from an AP is cheaper than building the 8 foot cage to find out she keeps pushing.

And like i said, you have more patience than me. No way i could have lasted 2 years with the pushing. But at some point, if it just doesnt change and cant be resolved, it is time to move on. Just like a bad relationship, you love the person but being together is just toxic for both of you.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Well trying a christmas tree tub just to see if the change in cage from an AP is cheaper than building the 8 foot cage to find out she keeps pushing.

And like i said, you have more patience than me. No way i could have lasted 2 years with the pushing. But at some point, if it just doesnt change and cant be resolved, it is time to move on. Just like a bad relationship, you love the person but being together is just toxic for both of you.

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Dude, that’s exactly what this feels like right now. A toxic relationship.
Talking to another retic friend online right now and he said to feed her HEAVY. feed her like I’m trying to kill her lol. Guess I’m ordering 4lb+ rabbits and seeing how that goes


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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Dude, that’s exactly what this feels like right now. A toxic relationship.
Talking to another retic friend online right now and he said to feed her HEAVY. feed her like I’m trying to kill her lol. Guess I’m ordering 4lb+ rabbits and seeing how that goes


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Probably will be a short term fix but keeping her in a food coma is just basically putting a band aid on a bullet wound. I mean feeding her a 4lb+ rabbit every 4-5 days is going to be bad for her and your wallet lol.

Good luck though but i really think, try a completely different enclosure color and type. That's why i said try the christmas tree tub. It is different color, different style and material and also smaller so you would be able to kill 3 birds with one stone. If that doesnt work, then other than keeping her in a food coma her whole life, i have no idea.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Probably will be a short term fix but keeping her in a food coma is just basically putting a band aid on a bullet wound. I mean feeding her a 4lb+ rabbit every 4-5 days is going to be bad for her and your wallet lol.

Good luck though but i really think, try a completely different enclosure color and type. That's why i said try the christmas tree tub. It is different color, different style and material and also smaller so you would be able to kill 3 birds with one stone. If that doesnt work, then other than keeping her in a food coma her whole life, i have no idea.

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Might order an xmas tree tub soon but we’ll see. She did always seem to do better with giant meals when she was smaller. Her current rats are the same size she was eating when she weighed 1/4 as much as she does now. 4-5lb rabbits would be like 5-6 rats in one shot. Throwing Hail Marys at this point


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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Might order an xmas tree tub soon but we’ll see. She did always seem to do better with giant meals when she was smaller. Her current rats are the same size she was eating when she weighed 1/4 as much as she does now. 4-5lb rabbits would be like 5-6 rats in one shot. Throwing Hail Marys at this point


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Yeah. I thought the same with Caesar. But since he quit pushing for the most part, he has been doing ok with just a jumbo rat every 2 weeks. I mean so far it has only been 2 times but so far so good.

Definitely worth a shot though as there really isnt much else left. Try the tub and bigger meals and see what happens. Not like it could get worse, unfortunately.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Probably will be a short term fix but keeping her in a food coma is just basically putting a band aid on a bullet wound. I mean feeding her a 4lb+ rabbit every 4-5 days is going to be bad for her and your wallet lol.

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Oh, I should have clarified. Currently feeding 4-5 days but I’m bumping down to Gerald’s jumbo rats for her. Hoping a big rabbit will keep her ass still for a week or so. If she demands 5 day feedings she’s getting xl or jumbo. Figure if a jumbo lasts as long as a colossal then why waste food. With the exception of the rabbit experiment soon.


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Have you tried to black out her enclosure where its pitch black? I thought you said a few months back you covered her enclosure did it help?

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Originally Posted by Stearns84

Have you tried to black out her enclosure where its pitch black? I thought you said a few months back you covered her enclosure did it help?

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I did try that a while back but I don’t know that it got totally dark in there for sure. Didn’t really do much but I might cut some cardboard or mat board to fit right in the tracks over the doors and see if that helps. I can always tell when she’s been at it because there will be spit smeared all over the doors where she pushes at them


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I could be way off and have said it before. I think is hormonal. She is wanting to breed and she is trying to get to your male. Then comes the problem of what to do with the eggs if any come with the breeding.

"After 4 - 5 weeks the male and female can be placed together at the cooler temperatures and mist the cage for a couple of weeks. This is done by adding the female to the males cage, as this simulates the female entering the males territory as she looks for a mate."

I keep seeing this over and over again in several articles. I am no expert but with her age and activity and a mature male around. It adds up to me.

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Originally Posted by Skyrivers

I could be way off and have said it before. I think is hormonal. She is wanting to breed and she is trying to get to your male. Then comes the problem of what to do with the eggs if any come with the breeding.

"After 4 - 5 weeks the male and female can be placed together at the cooler temperatures and mist the cage for a couple of weeks. This is done by adding the female to the males cage, as this simulates the female entering the males territory as she looks for a mate."

I keep seeing this over and over again in several articles. I am no expert but with her age and activity and a mature male around. It adds up to me.

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Actually the male would be the one to make the fuss. It is rather rare for a female to roam and push for breeding reasons. They give off the pheromones and the males make the effort. The males will combat, stop eating and channel their energies into finding a mate.

Gerald is younger than his girl and I'm not even sure if he has hit full maturity.

JM has already moved cages around, separated them by room and kept her out of the cage. When she is out of the cage she typically is fine, and she isn't roaming looking for the male's cage according to JM.

I'd find it unlikely this is a female wanting to breed. In almost all species of animal, the males make the effort to breed and have to be accepted by the female.

It's a larger subject than that explanation however, Gerald would be the snake making the ruckus in this situation.

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Originally Posted by Gio

Actually the male would be the one to make the fuss. It is rather rare for a female to roam and push for breeding reasons. They give off the pheromones and the males make the effort. The males will combat, stop eating and channel their energies into finding a mate.

Gerald is younger than his girl and I'm not even sure if he has hit full maturity.

JM has already moved cages around, separated them by room and kept her out of the cage. When she is out of the cage she typically is fine, and she isn't roaming looking for the male's cage according to JM.

I'd find it unlikely this is a female wanting to breed. In almost all species of animal, the males make the effort to breed and have to be accepted by the female.

It's a larger subject than that explanation however, Gerald would be the snake making the ruckus in this situation.

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At the bottom of the article are some DO's and DONT'S.
http://www.reptilesmagazine.com/Reti...on-Mccurley-3/

I think JM is on the right track with a larger cage.

Not digging for updates, just hope you and Phyllis are hanging in there.

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Originally Posted by Stearns84

Not digging for updates, just hope you and Phyllis are hanging in there.

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Thanks man, I appreciate it.
Vet appointment scheduled for 10am Saturday in Birmingham. I hope it’s nothing but anything at this point will help give me peace of mind


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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Thanks man, I appreciate it.
Vet appointment scheduled for 10am Saturday in Birmingham. I hope it’s nothing but anything at this point will help give me peace of mind


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Out thoughts are with you.

Fingers crossed that the vet can finally give you some much needed answers to your many questions and some peace to your mind and heart that you are AWESOME , fantastic care giver (I think you need to remember that;)) . Best wishes always... ~Healing hugs from across the miles ~

Ask the vet for some reptile valium......and maybe human valium for you lol.

Good luck.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Ask the vet for some reptile valium......and maybe human valium for you lol.

Good luck.

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If you could send me some too that would be great.

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Thanks for the thoughts and responses, y’all. I really do appreciate it. I’ll update as soon as I know anything further


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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Ask the vet for some reptile valium......and maybe human valium for you lol.

Good luck.

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I’ve already got some for me... I just call it bourbon lmao [emoji23]


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How's she doing?

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Originally Posted by Stearns84

How's she doing?

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Tore another hole in the opposite side of her gums. Worst it’s ever looked within the last week or so. She’s making me feel like an awful keeper, I can’t imagine how she feels. Vet appt at 10am tomorrow.


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Holy cow man. I will say confidently that it is not food related. I really think she might just not like AP cages. I mean that is the only thing you havent tried different.

Grats on being the first person i know who has a snake that is cage brand picky.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

Holy cow man. I will say confidently that it is not food related. I really think she might just not like AP cages. I mean that is the only thing you havent tried different.

Grats on being the first person i know who has a snake that is cage brand picky.

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I think there’s tooth lodged in her gums or an infection from previous lost teeth that flares up when she pushes. Hopefully I’ll find something out one way or another tomorrow morning.


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Good luck and hopefully thats it and a quick fix. Would definitely be a 'doh' moment if it was. All this time pushing and it turns out its a lodged tooth that is pulled out in about 10 mins by a vet.

This just sucks.

Some retics just push. It’s nothing you are doing wrong IMO.

I rarely think snakes, unless starved have many food related issues but I stated that way back.

Maybe just the internal part of the AP gives her something to push, but she maybe would in another enclosure just the same.

At this point BIG cage is all I can come up with.

What a crap way to start the weekend.

Sorry brother,, this takes all the fun out of the hobby doesn’ It.


Eventually things will head in the right direction for you both.

Really hoping the vet nips this pushing thing in the butt , don't feel like an awful keeper :tears: you have gorgeous babes, and would do anything for them that makes a pretty special person in my book. Best wishes will keep you both in my prayers tonight ;)

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Originally Posted by Gio

This just sucks.

Some retics just push. It’s nothing you are doing wrong IMO.

I rarely think snakes, unless starved have many food related issues but I stated that way back.

Maybe just the internal part of the AP gives her something to push, but she maybe would in another enclosure just the same.

At this point BIG cage is all I can come up with.

What a crap way to start the weekend.

Sorry brother,, this takes all the fun out of the hobby doesn’ It.


Eventually things will head in the right direction for you both.

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I beg to differ with Caesar and food. As a baby, he was so food driven. I know he pushed from wanting food and like mentioned, it might have been conditioned a little too as i fed him when he pushed. But now that he is an adult, the only time i caught him heavily pushing was when he wanted a girlfriend, or at least that is what i think as he pushed like crazy during breeding season and now he is pretty quiet and can go 2 weeks on a jumbo rat.

Heck when i asked Kris what he was eating when i got him, his response was 'he will eat anything offered. He is not picky in the least'. And he was right, Caesar ate within 2 hours of being unboxed and never stopped, even in shed, he would eat lol. Couldnt see a thing but he was happy to flail around with open mouth until he latched onto food lol.

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Originally Posted by Sauzo

I beg to differ with Caesar and food. As a baby, he was so food driven. I know he pushed from wanting food and like mentioned, it might have been conditioned a little too as i fed him when he pushed. But now that he is an adult, the only time i caught him heavily pushing was when he wanted a girlfriend, or at least that is what i think as he pushed like crazy during breeding season and now he is pretty quiet and can go 2 weeks on a jumbo rat.

Heck when i asked Kris what he was eating when i got him, his response was 'he will eat anything offered. He is not picky in the least'. And he was right, Caesar ate within 2 hours of being unboxed and never stopped, even in shed, he would eat lol. Couldnt see a thing but he was happy to flail around with open mouth until he latched onto food lol.

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Yours was a baby this is a different situation.
Wallace ate everything offered as well at that age. This is a very large, mature animal not in the beginning stages.

The snake in question here is being over fed to solve a problem. Food is NOT the issue here and only stops pushing because energy is diverted to digest instead of push. If she is now conditioned, it still doesn’t make food the answer.

With most adult snakes in scenarios like this, as I stated, unless starved, more and more food is not the answer.

Good luck today.

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Here’s the vet assessment. Tissue damage in the gums and stomatitis/mouth rot.
Prescribed twice daily betadine swabs and twice daily silver sulfadiazine cream applied to oral wounds. Once daily Metacam injections for a week for pain management. Fortaz for the stomatits injected once every three days for three weeks.
Probed at 8 scales deep which I can’t seem to find definite confirmation as to whether that’s male or female?
Took a few vet techs to hold her still to examine her mouth but other than that was well behaved. Dr. Burk thought she was great. Walked into the room and said “so you’ve got a big sexy snake for me to see huh?” Hahah, this wasn’t even a big snake compared to a 180 burm she said she had an appointment for once upon a time. Took ten vet techs to carry it in. Also said she was sorry I had to drive so far (2.5hours) but that she’s more than happy to see any of my critters anytime
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1ead20b8bc.jpg


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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Here’s the vet assessment. Tissue damage in the gums and stomatitis/mouth rot.
Prescribed twice daily betadine swabs and twice daily silver sulfadiazine cream applied to oral wounds. Once daily Metacam injections for a week for pain management. Fortaz for the stomatits injected once every three days for three weeks.
Probed at 8 scales deep which I can’t seem to find definite confirmation as to whether that’s male or female?
Took a few vet techs to hold her still to examine her mouth but other than that was well behaved. Dr. Burk thought she was great. Walked into the room and said “so you’ve got a big sexy snake for me to see huh?” Hahah, this wasn’t even a big snake compared to a 180 burm she said she had an appointment for once upon a time. Took ten vet techs to carry it in. Also said she was sorry I had to drive so far (2.5hours) but that she’s more than happy to see any of my critters anytime
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...1ead20b8bc.jpg


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Do you think the mouth rot has been there awhile? Maybe she's pushing to because of annoyance? Hope for the best, great job on getting her there. She's beautiful!

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Originally Posted by Stearns84

Do you think the mouth rot has been there awhile? Maybe she's pushing to because of annoyance? Hope for the best, great job on getting her there. She's beautiful!

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That’s my suspicion. I think she’s been in pain and pushing because of it.
Vet and her husband (also an exotics vet at another clinic) both said my husbandry looks and sounds very good and that technically she should be perfectly fine in her current cage size. Also said that maybe she just wants more room anyway and is being stubborn about it. Guess I’ll start drawing up more serious plans for a two part 8’x3’x2’ cage. Just want the best for my girl!
Unrelated, she weighed in at about 28lbs today. Getting a bit chunky


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Good news brother!

I like the Vet contact you have there.

Things will come around now,,,, I caN FEEL IT!

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Originally Posted by Gio

Good news brother!

I like the Vet contact you have there.

Things will come around now,,,, I caN FEEL IT!

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Let’s hope so. I’m a bit concerned about the depth of the probing. 8 scales could mean Phyllis is a male and smells Gerald and will persistently tear her/his face off. Either way, hoping the course of treatment offers some relief


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So happy u have a direction to walk in. Best of luck and keep us updated with recovery.

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i've been quietly following, as i do with most of you giant owners [emoji6], and i just want to say that i wish you both the best of luck! knowing you and your care, i'm sure she'll turn around in no time at all.

that photo is precious btw. [emoji4]

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Let’s hope so. I’m a bit concerned about the depth of the probing. 8 scales could mean Phyllis is a male and smells Gerald and will persistently tear her/his face off. Either way, hoping the course of treatment offers some relief


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Well,

I had suspicions of that early on, and it would make sense, but, Mother Of Mercy!! A male pure Kalatoa at that size???

If she is a he you should feed him on the most minimal end of the spectrum as possible.

The vet picture really gave me a perspective of size. That's a BIG SD!!

Even still, you are doing the absolute best you can with the situation!

Keep me in the loop, and don't forget about that sweet BCC you have LOL!

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Originally Posted by Gio

Well,

I had suspicions of that early on, and it would make sense, but, Mother Of Mercy!! A male pure Kalatoa at that size???

If she is a he you should feed him on the most minimal end of the spectrum as possible.

The vet picture really gave me a perspective of size. That's a BIG SD!!

Even still, you are doing the absolute best you can with the situation!

Keep me in the loop, and don't forget about that sweet BCC you have LOL!

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I just talked to Daniel Solis, the breeder I got her from. He said he’s pretty confident that’s a female and especially at that size but that mistakes can happen. Suggested I try popping her sometime. We’ll see. I still think Phyllis is a lady snake but that was thrown into question as soon as I saw that probe slip 8 scales deep lol. I do know I guy with a 15 yr old 1.1 pair of adult kalatoas that are both over 10’ he says, so it’s not impossible for a male to get that big.
The picture with my vet is only slightly misleading as the perspective in the photo make the latter half of the snake seem larger than it is. Have no doubt though, she’s quite large hah! Wish me luck with my first attempt at administering an injection solo tomorrow. I think it will be okay.
And yes, I need to post in Leonard’s thread soon. He hung out the other night and watched half of The Lost World with me on the couch. He’s got the curiosity of a retic at the speed of a ball python. I think he’ll fit in quite well here [emoji6]



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Originally Posted by jmcrook

I just talked to Daniel Solis, the breeder I got her from. He said he’s pretty confident that’s a female and especially at that size but that mistakes can happen. Suggested I try popping her sometime. We’ll see. I still think Phyllis is a lady snake but that was thrown into question as soon as I saw that probe slip 8 scales deep lol. I do know I guy with a 15 yr old 1.1 pair of adult kalatoas that are both over 10’ he says, so it’s not impossible for a male to get that big.
The picture with my vet is only slightly misleading as the perspective in the photo make the latter half of the snake seem larger than it is. Have no doubt though, she’s quite large hah! Wish me luck with my first attempt at administering an injection solo tomorrow. I think it will be okay.
And yes, I need to post in Leonard’s thread soon. He hung out the other night and watched half of The Lost World with me on the couch. He’s got the curiosity of a retic at the speed of a ball python. I think he’ll fit in quite well here [emoji6]



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While I cant relate to Retics as I don't own one. There's a Youtuber under the name of "drthik1" (I think CALMpythons from here actually knows him) who breeds/owns a bunch of Burms and Retics ....he swears any male can reach the size of any female. That certainly didnt reflect what I had always been told by other breeders, but after looking as his collection I believe its possible now.

I second a vote on popping. The breeder whom I purchased my male Burm from had an incredibly large clutch so I was somewhat concerned that there was a chance he just did a quick probe and missed something. A popping on my end however showed two, long undeniable red hemipenes ...so I was comforted by that. Maybe Im an odd person for being happy at the thought of seeing my snake's junk lol....but I think you understand what I saying.

Unless you are familiar with popping, i wouldnt just 'try' it. You can hurt the snake if done wrong. If you are really worried, just find another vet and take Phyllis in for a probing. Shouldnt be too expensive. My vet charges $50 for an office visit and will probe an extra snake no charge if i am bringing in something else. Thats how i verified Dottie was a she. I was told she was a 'she' as she was popped as a baby by Dr Adolf Maas who is the local be all end all reptile vet in the area. But i wanted to make sure so when i had to take Harley in for a checkup, i just dragged Dottie along for a quick probing and the vet confirmed she is a she.

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

I just talked to Daniel Solis, the breeder I got her from. He said he’s pretty confident that’s a female and especially at that size but that mistakes can happen. Suggested I try popping her sometime. We’ll see. I still think Phyllis is a lady snake but that was thrown into question as soon as I saw that probe slip 8 scales deep lol. I do know I guy with a 15 yr old 1.1 pair of adult kalatoas that are both over 10’ he says, so it’s not impossible for a male to get that big.
The picture with my vet is only slightly misleading as the perspective in the photo make the latter half of the snake seem larger than it is. Have no doubt though, she’s quite large hah! Wish me luck with my first attempt at administering an injection solo tomorrow. I think it will be okay.
And yes, I need to post in Leonard’s thread soon. He hung out the other night and watched half of The Lost World with me on the couch. He’s got the curiosity of a retic at the speed of a ball python. I think he’ll fit in quite well here [emoji6]



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If you do try popping her .... be sure to film it and upload it here please ..
I'm at a loose end now the WestWorld series has ended ..

:)


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Originally Posted by zincubus

if you do try popping her .... Be sure to film it and upload it here please ..
I'm at a loose end now the westworld series has ended ..

:)


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lol!

I would think she got the mouth rot *from* rubbing, not rubbing because of it but I know that would not be good news so I REALLY hope it's not the case. Hopefully getting this all cured up fixes the issues. She might get so grumpy with all the manhandling and gum rubbing, hopefully all goes well. That's awesome you found such a great vet, shame she's so far away. You're such a great keeper to do so much for this retic that is obviously becoming a headache. I really hope she knocks out the pushing. I wish I had more ideas to offer.

8 scales would make me think male but not for sure... eep seems like you'd need a helper to try to pop a snake that big!

Wishing you both well

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Originally Posted by AbsoluteApril

I would think she got the mouth rot *from* rubbing, not rubbing because of it but I know that would not be good news so I REALLY hope it's not the case. Hopefully getting this all cured up fixes the issues. She might get so grumpy with all the manhandling and gum rubbing, hopefully all goes well. That's awesome you found such a great vet, shame she's so far away. You're such a great keeper to do so much for this retic that is obviously becoming a headache. I really hope she knocks out the pushing. I wish I had more ideas to offer.

8 scales would make me think male but not for sure... eep seems like you'd need a helper to try to pop a snake that big!

Wishing you both well

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Yeah my theory is that the pushing caused the mouth rot, which in turn irritated her, causing more pushing, which sustained the mouth rot, causing more irritation and pushing, creating a vicious cycle.
She certainly isn’t a fan the injections or being restrained to apply the cream to her face, but surprisingly isn’t overly grumpy afterwards. Just slithers back into the cage and sulks in the corner or on her shelf.
8scales also makes me curious if she’s male but Daniel Solis said at her size for her age he’s pretty confident it’s a female. And popping her would certainly be a two perfect or more job.
I really hope she bounces back well and knocks off the pushing, she’s doing alright so far but she did eat only 4 days ago. I’ve invested so much time, effort, and $ in this animal that I’d hate to have to rehome her. I’d be pretty crushed.


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Good luck man. Fingers crossed.

I’m sure you are on the path to beating this. I bet when you pop her, she will be a he. That’s pretty deep to be a female on that scale count.

You are doing great! "Just push through it." You will be fine.

Oops! LOL. Hope that made you laugh.

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Originally Posted by jmcrook

Yeah my theory is that the pushing caused the mouth rot, which in turn irritated her, causing more pushing, which sustained the mouth rot, causing more irritation and pushing, creating a vicious cycle.
She certainly isn’t a fan the injections or being restrained to apply the cream to her face, but surprisingly isn’t overly grumpy afterwards. Just slithers back into the cage and sulks in the corner or on her shelf.
8scales also makes me curious if she’s male but Daniel Solis said at her size for her age he’s pretty confident it’s a female. And popping her would certainly be a two perfect or more job.
I really hope she bounces back well and knocks off the pushing, she’s doing alright so far but she did eat only 4 days ago. I’ve invested so much time, effort, and $ in this animal that I’d hate to have to rehome her. I’d be pretty crushed.


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Chatting more on the phone with my vet. She’s been talking about Phyllis with another exotics expert and they both seem curious if she’s just still hungry. She didn’t think Phyllis seemed overweight when I brought her in, which is a relief to me. I should have a box of 4-6lb rabbits showing up this week. One of them would be the equivalent of 5 leaner meatier rats all in one shot. Gotta find a local source though. Rodent pro ain’t cheap and monster feeders never responded after I placed an order. I won’t beg anyone to take my business if they are fine without it.