How Low?

no one is saying that prices shouldn't drop each year and season. supply and demand will do that own it's own. no 75% drop in 6 months is needed. there is no flood or mass production of morphs floating around. go to your local reptile stores,petcos,zoos,etc. you don't see bp morphs laying around!


ps, no one has publically acknowledged buying these animals or receiving them yet??? this could all be bs, before the big show? usually people post pics of animals they just bought or are in process of getting. time will tell, this could be just a way for some rich guy to mess with people?


vaughn

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kavmon

there is no flood or mass production of morphs floating around. go to your local reptile stores,petcos,zoos,etc. you don't see bp morphs laying around!

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That's cause of the good 'ol Internet...Plenty of them floating around there!!!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbkd

Quote:
Originally Posted by sho220
Fortunately I love these critters because they look cool and have great personalities!!!

Come on $350 SPIDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






Welcome to the world of free trade. If you want to protect your morphs, patent them!!!!!!!!!!!! It is that simple!!!!! We do it in the plant world everyday!

I also look forward to the day my son can buy a spider at a reasonalbe rate.

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$350 dollar Spider's are many year's away if they ever get that low.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by emilio

$350 dollar Spider's are many year's away if they ever get that low.

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350 was just a number I was throwing out there...I doubt they get that low...mostly cause they're so cool looking...I would think 500 would the bottom...

for discussion let's play with some #'s. i.e. say there are around 1 million people into reptiles worlwide. 10% are into snakes (100,000) 10% of them are into bp morphs

(10,000). half of them will buy some kind of morph, 5,000
show me 5,000 morphs for sale. this is just an example numbers are not accurate, but the worldwide market for reptile hobbyists is bigger than kingsnake and the demand is still more than we can produce. try to hatch 40 morphs and tell me how easy it was, then try to make 1000 of them.



vaughn

Supply and demand will iron this out, sure, but when?

I might be mistaken, but how many ads on KS or anywhere have 06 Spiders for $4000? How many sellers/breeders period can still get $5000 for an 06 Spider or $4000 for an 06 Mojave or $20,000 for an 06 Lesser? How about $3000 for an 06 Albino?

Will it iron itself out for 2007?
Do you think it will hold on at $1500 for 07 Spiders or $1400 for an 07 Mojaves or how about a stable $1500 for 07 Albinos?

When will it iron itself out and at what $$$ more or less?
This is the million dollar question!!

Call me crazy, but somehow I don't think what we've seen in the past 6-7 months including this week is due to supply and demand!

I think it's mostly due to a mentality of everyone for themselves and I'm getting mine while I can attitude! Compounded by somewhat short term, somewhat selfish thinking with an extra sprinkle of why compete with other sellers when I can sell at a lower price and still make a good chunk of $$$.

Get yourself 10-20-30 sellers on one site with similar thinking and you've got a 90% reduction in price in 6 months!

Or you could be right in that no one really wants Ball Pythons anymore, they were just really overly inflated to begin with, and the demand did not justify the supply being pumped out by new breeders, and everyone started dropping prices all together.

My opinion, Ball Pythons are still too damn hot and still climbing to lose 90% in 6 months because supply & demand! Sellers have crapped all over Ball Pythons, not the other way around!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by kavmon

for discussion let's play with some #'s. i.e. say there are around 1 million people into reptiles worlwide. 10% are into snakes (100,000) 10% of them are into bp morphs

(10,000). half of them will buy some kind of morph, 5,000
show me 5,000 morphs for sale. this is just an example numbers are not accurate, but the worldwide market for reptile hobbyists is bigger than kingsnake and the demand is still more than we can produce. try to hatch 40 morphs and tell me how easy it was, then try to make 1000 of them.



vaughn

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There are plenty out there...on just the first page of KS there were at least 24 Spiders and at least 20 Mojaves...We also have faunaclassifieds, reptileauctions and all the individual breeder websites...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by jbkd

Quote:
Originally Posted by sho220
Fortunately I love these critters because they look cool and have great personalities!!!

Come on $350 SPIDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!






Welcome to the world of free trade. If you want to protect your morphs, patent them!!!!!!!!!!!! It is that simple!!!!! We do it in the plant world everyday!

I also look forward to the day my son can buy a spider at a reasonalbe rate.

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Well, someone woke up on the sarcastic side of the bed today.
Anyways, You dont see this kind of crap going on in other places of the market now do you (unless youre talking about baseball cards, but they didnt start mass producing their rare cards for cheap for their customers).
You kind of took what I said out of contextt- you're putting it a frame of mind that i did not intend. See: Word Twisting. You make it seem like I'm against 'free trade' what I am against, and what im complaining about:
1) Someone with Alternative reasons (in my book anyway- there's no rational explination, he's giving back to the customers? bs. he knows what will happen if he sells a high end for low.)
2) Someone else is all giddy'd up about the market sinking in a particular area so they can snatch up what they want. That seems harsh or me I guess, but it came out that way at the time. I'm not mad at sho220 or anything like that. Just that post at that time

IMO: this is a business, a market. but its also people. this isnt cars or playstations- its living animals and the people and their love. For someone to trash and disrespect that- well, i guess I'm a goody-too shoes to think that if people kept their heads that there could be something in it for everyone.

Patent a bp. Yes, that is it. Even though that makes absolutly no sense. How in the world can you set up a patent that if the animal is redistributed that it can only be sold at X. Genius. Even if someone else Wild-catches the same morph.

Excuse me for taking MKRs actions as insult to people who did all the work for him to dump. For disrespecting the people he buys from and sells to. (see two paragraphs above)

And as for your son- apparently 2 grand is a reasonable price right now, that's its current value or around in. Okay then.

And whatever, reply to this if you will. Im burnt out on this post, Thanks for the responses.

When will it iron itself out, hell if I know!

But I just hope it goes back to the gradual slide.....


It's so cut throat!! And a lot of people are willing to cut anyones throat including their own in the name of $$$ and pure greed.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ssscales

Supply and demand will iron this out, sure, but when?

I might be mistaken, but how many ads on KS or anywhere have 06 Spiders for $4000? How many sellers/breeders period can still get $5000 for an 06 Spider or $4000 for an 06 Mojave or $20,000 for an 06 Lesser? How about $3000 for an 06 Albino?

Will it iron itself out for 2007?
Do you think it will hold on at $1500 for 07 Spiders or $1400 for an 07 Mojaves or how about a stable $1500 for 07 Albinos?

When will it iron itself out and at what $$$ more or less?
This is the million dollar question!!

Call me crazy, but somehow I don't think what we've seen in the past 6-7 months including this week is due to supply and demand!

I think it's mostly due to a mentality of everyone for themselves and I'm getting mine while I can attitude! Compounded by somewhat short term, somewhat selfish thinking with an extra sprinkle of why compete with other sellers when I can sell at a lower price and still make a good chunk of $$$.

Get yourself 10-20-30 sellers on one site with similar thinking and you've got a 90% reduction in price in 6 months!

Or you could be right in that no one really wants Ball Pythons anymore and they were just really overly inflated to begin with and the demand did not justify the supply being pumped out by new breeders and everyone started dropping prices all together.

My opinion, Ball Pythons are still too damn hot and still climbing to lose 90% in 6 months because supply & demand! Sellers have crapped all over Ball Pythons, not the other way around!

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AMEN! eventually, these people imo that get less and less money for the morphs because they keep SCREWING themselves over are going to see less and less profit. Eventually things like .. oh.. IRS will show up- and people will drop like flys- HOW MANY BREEDERS HAVE SAID HAVE A BUSINESS PLAN. Do you think any of these KS, Fauna, Etc breeders that are selling their animals under big name breeder's prices have made money flow charts, set up business plans, written drafted rewritten and etc on their intake and expenses? NO.
As far as prices:
I see a decrease in some animals.
I think the ones in the 5grand below that are co-dom will probably go a bit lowere. Things will IRON themsevles out once these people finally fail or get tired of keeping all these animals, these mouths, cleaning poop and taking bites for 200$ and 300$ that they're getting and even less when they get the IRS on their tails.
Once the smoke clears and the BP market clenses itsself of the idiots, I think some animals will, yes, be much cheaper.
Its sad considering all these morphs are 10 years and less. But look at the future- we have double recessives to look forward to. Triple recessives further on down.
There's no end to how far you can go with genetics, and there is no way that we've discovered about four dozen morhps in just 10 years and think all the ink is out of the pen. Morphs now will dwindle- but there's always the Next Big Thing, and those breeders now that are busting their butts to do what is right for the market, themselves, and customers are going to be there with the trades and the proceeds to get these future babies. Then the Jimmys will come back (not that they've ever been gone) and things will cycle.
So eventually, i see a few of these morphs dropping yes- I honestly think some will get just a hundred or so above normals. But i think there will be ladders in prices. Things will drop. Others rise.

Sorry for the rambles, I get from one topic to the next and hope it had some ideas or something worth reading. I tend to get in trouble on forums (especially political omg.) about having the topic and then wandering off. *_*