Price drops

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Even if you are making a profit with falling prices, the point is that ball python morphs don't need to be dropped as low as they are, as fast as they are. And if each snake costs $100 a year to care for, you are losing money when people push the prices down below $100. There isn't a ball python morph morph out there where females should ever fall below several hundred dollars, and males $100. Normals is a different story, because so many are imported.

No one can make anyone sell their animals for any price, but we can try to get it across that it's unnecessary and counter productive for each breeder, and for the hobby as a whole, to drive the prices down so low so quickly. If your animals aren't selling at market prices, it makes a hell of a lot more sense to try harder than it does to practically give them away publically, helping to crash your own market, and effecting everyone in it. We can try to get it across that breeders would sell out of females every year, even if the prices dropped 10% every year and never fell below $300. The message is that it's just plain stupid for so many breeders to continually lower prices as quickly as possible, to prices that are way below what they could be for sales to be the same as they are at the cheaper market prices. Is there really anyone involved in this conversation that doesn't think that female pastels would not get sold out every year had they not dropped so quickly, and if you couldn't find one for less than $300? Of course they would. So why are so many breeders in a hurry to give everything away, instead of taking the difference in price from a decent market price and the prices they are dropping them at, and spend it on improving your breeding stock and advertising your quality business? Stupidity, selfishness and greed, in my opinion. We can't tell anyone to sell their animals for more money, but when you all battle to have the cheapest of any given morph, you are telling the rest of the hobby that we can't charge as much as they are worth. The market is supposed to be what dictate a range for prices, but in this hobby the market itself is dictated by too many people who would rather shoot themselves in the foot and destroy the market for everyone, than to do any actual leg work or make any attempt to spend any time or money to make the sales like the decent half of the hobby does. The fact that female pastels ever dropped below $300-$400 proves that something other than common sense or actual supply and demand determines the market value in this hobby.

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Have you seen the Economy ! I think that has a lot to do with it !

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Even if you are making a profit with falling prices, the point is that ball python morphs don't need to be dropped as low as they are, as fast as they are. And if each snake costs $100 a year to care for, you are losing money when people push the prices down below $100. There isn't a ball python morph morph out there where females should ever fall below several hundred dollars, and males $100.

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one might argue the 100$ morphs male minimum, but the truth to this is there is many pastel and yb males selling for less than 100$

Do you suppose there should be some sort of ruling body, a group who sets prices, someone to make these decisions for us?

Because short of that, I don't see much changing.

I too wish prices would stay higher but I know they won't.

Until, or unless, there is a limit placed, how many are available, how many you can have, something like that, there will always be guys selling low.

I see it in False Water Cobras too. I am the most expensive guy out there. I see LOTS of other people sell out while I sell few. Then, as my snakes get older, I raise my prices and sell my snakes.

People that won't pay me 200.00 for a hatchling will give me 350.00 for a yearling. It doesn't cost me 150.00 to keep one for a year so my profit went up.

It's not easy to sit on babies, especially when the power bill is due and rent is right around the corner, and sometimes wholesaling is necessary and then there are deals to friends, but I have found that waiting it out will eventually sell my stock at my price.

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Originally Posted by PythonWallace

Even if you are making a profit with falling prices, the point is that ball python morphs don't need to be dropped as low as they are, as fast as they are. And if each snake costs $100 a year to care for, you are losing money when people push the prices down below $100. There isn't a ball python morph morph out there where females should ever fall below several hundred dollars, and males $100. Normals is a different story, because so many are imported.

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"They don't need to be" dropped as fast? No one really decides that. If I have them priced for X amount and they're not selling, then I'm going to drop the price. You can't artificially set an amount they should be worth or should fall. Just not the way it works.

And there's no reason why female morphs won't drop to less than several hundred dollars. As more and more get produced, they become more and more common. You may not like it, but that's they way its going and they way it will eventually become.

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Originally Posted by Haydenphoto

Have you seen the Economy ! I think that has a lot to do with it !

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...

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Originally Posted by nixer

one might argue the 100$ morphs male minimum, but the truth to this is there is many pastel and yb males selling for less than 100$

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I know. That's what I said.

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Originally Posted by wilomn

Do you suppose there should be some sort of ruling body, a group who sets prices, someone to make these decisions for us?

Because short of that, I don't see much changing.

I too wish prices would stay higher but I know they won't.

Until, or unless, there is a limit placed, how many are available, how many you can have, something like that, there will always be guys selling low.

I see it in False Water Cobras too. I am the most expensive guy out there. I see LOTS of other people sell out while I sell few. Then, as my snakes get older, I raise my prices and sell my snakes.

People that won't pay me 200.00 for a hatchling will give me 350.00 for a yearling. It doesn't cost me 150.00 to keep one for a year so my profit went up.

It's not easy to sit on babies, especially when the power bill is due and rent is right around the corner, and sometimes wholesaling is necessary and then there are deals to friends, but I have found that waiting it out will eventually sell my stock at my price.

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No, there shouldn't be any body to oversee prices. I just have this pipe dream that some of the people will wake up and take the time to work out a better business plan than the idiotic ones they use now.

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Originally Posted by blueapplepaste

For example, lets say we assume lessers will eventually be $200 in two years. So you buy a lesser BEL male hatchling this year for $2k and a couple of proven females and a yearling female pastel.

In a year you breed him to two normal females and get 12 eggs from them both and produce 12 lessers. Maybe you can sell them each for $300. That's $3.6k gross, figure $500 for food, a $1k for your set up, and then $2.5k from the initial investment. So you're in the hole $400 at this point.

Well the following year you do a repeat breeding with the normals and then with the pastel who's now ready to go. Lets say you get another 12 eggs from the normals and 4 eggs from the pastel. So you produce 12 lessers and this year they're $200. And lets say you have perfect odds and get 2 lessers and 2 lesser pastels from the BEL to pastel breeding. You sell 14 lessers for $2.8k and one pastel lesser for $400 and hold back a lesser pastel. This year you grossed $3.2k. You were in the hole $400, and $500 for food again, so your net is $2.1k.

This is just an example, but if you plan ahead, have goals, and a long term plan in mind, then falling prices shouldn't be that big of a deal.

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If it were only so simple...what about girls not ovulating, small clutched, bad odds, slugs, eggs dying...a lot of factors go into ball breeding....

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Originally Posted by monk90222

If it were only so simple...what about girls not ovulating, small clutched, bad odds, slugs, eggs dying...a lot of factors go into ball breeding....

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I know a lot can go wrong, including falling prices. All the more reason to have a mapped out plan that assumes these things will happen.

Quite a few people, including at least one Mod. here on BP.net have blamed KS, Fauna, and other sites for crashing prices.
What about this ad right here on this site?

No disrespect to BP.net, the Mod(s,) or even Kyle.
Just pointing out the market is tough all over.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...hreadid=101574

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Originally Posted by rjk890

Quite a few people, including at least one Mod. here on BP.net have blamed KS, Fauna, and other sites for crashing prices.
What about this ad right here on this site?

No disrespect to BP.net, the Mod(s,) or even Kyle.
Just pointing out the market is tough all over.

http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...hreadid=101574

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Who knows? could be a total scam, or it could be someone who simply has a bad business plan and wants to dump their snakes regardless of what it does to the market. could be an honest person with good animals that just doesn't know any better. I don't know, and I don't care.

Any time someone has 8 total posts and posts a for sale thread, I completely disregard their add and instead pay attention to the adds from those who have earned my trust by contributing to this form BEFORE trying to take advantage of its for sale section.

Far too many good, established breeders on this forum to waste time with what is likely a scammer.

Either way such an add in my eyes in no way shape or form represents the current market price for reputable breeders.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Who knows? could be a total scam, or it could be someone who simply has a bad business plan and wants to dump their snakes regardless of what it does to the market. could be an honest person with good animals that just doesn't know any better. I don't know, and I don't care.

Any time someone has 8 total posts and posts a for sale thread, I completely disregard their add and instead pay attention to the adds from those who have earned my trust by contributing to this form BEFORE trying to take advantage of its for sale section.

Far too many good, established breeders on this forum to waste time with what is likely a scammer.

Either way such an add in my eyes in no way shape or form represents the current market price for reputable breeders.

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Kyle is about as far from a scammer as you can get. :P