Ballbids.com

Wow, even they know Mike's name thrown in the mix with Avi and Zachs can make him look bad :rolleyes:

Look. To be honest, Avi, you seem like a good businessman. You're proving extremely tenacious at least, considering the EPIC backlash from the community the site is apparently trying to cater to. I'm kind of sorry that you got involved in a business venture with this dude. You probably could have been really successful doing something else. Hopefully this doesn't haunt you.

Anyway, I don't doubt they're going to make money at this whether we like it or not, probably from people who aren't involved in forums, like kids. People who don't know any better.

But I still feel it's a slimey way to make money. I don't think live animals should be used in this way and I especially don't think this is going to reflect well on the reptile industry. We already have a pretty crappy public image. People don't like the fact that we even ship animals in packages. Now it's going to look like we condone auctioning them off like electronics. So nice job, guys. Way to contribute something positive to the industry. Thanks.

Heh, I just finished reading this thread. When I get off work, I think I'm going to skip the popcorn. This seems entertaining enough to crack out some pizza and beer. :gj:

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Originally Posted by Ash

Look. To be honest, Avi, you seem like a good businessman. You're proving extremely tenacious at least, considering the EPIC backlash from the community the site is apparently trying to cater to. I'm kind of sorry that you got involved in a business venture with this dude. You probably could have been really successful doing something else. Hopefully this doesn't haunt you.

Anyway, I don't doubt they're going to make money at this whether we like it or not, probably from people who aren't involved in forums, like kids. People who don't know any better.

But I still feel it's a slimey way to make money. I don't think live animals should be used in this way and I especially don't think this is going to reflect well on the reptile industry. We already have a pretty crappy public image. People don't like the fact that we even ship animals in packages. Now it's going to look like we condone auctioning them off like electronics. So nice job, guys. Way to contribute something positive to the industry. Thanks.

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All they need to do to get a glimpse of their future is check out the ghost town called reptileauctions.com...that website has been around for a few years and has never really done anything.

Personally I don't like the auction angle...I would think it would lead to a lot of impulse buys...which is not good when you're dealing with animals...

I feel bad for Avi getting into this, he seems like hes got decent marketing skills though is a little too slick for my tastes.


sent from my EVO

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Originally Posted by jbean7916

I feel bad for Avi getting into this, he seems like hes got decent marketing skills though is a little too slick for my tastes.


sent from my EVO

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I don't. Their both criminals. Internet fraud, using other peoples names without permission ., etc.... And then admit to lying about quarantine and other stuff. They should be sued if you ask me....both of them.. After all, their partners in this crime. All the proof needed is in these previous posts. If I were them, id be stepping away quietly as possible.
spooky

All I have to say is...It's not for me! I would love to see everybody stay away from this at all cost. I thought buying animals was about buying them from somebody who works hard to sustain a clean and healthy collection? Who knows how this guy keeps his animals if he doesn't breed or maintain a collection? Wouldn't it be fair to call this site and it's owners flippers? Best thing to do is, act like this site does not exist. What happens when your snake comes down sick? How is he going to replace your animal when he doesn't breed? Red flags in my book! Support your local breeder!:salute:

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Originally Posted by aviBallBids

Hi everyone!
I'm sorry for taking so long to respond to your posts! I'm sure you can imagine how backed up we've been with today's fiasco!

Anyway, I read through all of your threads, and I'd like to go through a few major topics that I see being mentioned over and over again:

1) Quarantine: I confused the previous question about quarantine with general housing. For that, I apologize. The truth is that we don't have a proper quarantine set up, but it hasn't been an issue until this point because all of our snakes have been with us for about a month now, none of which are showing signs of health problems. However, we will have a proper quarantine set up in no time. As I mentioned earlier, we have the necessary supplies to build several more hatchling racks, which we will separate from our primary snake room and use as a quarantine.

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So you admit you have no quarantine practice and in your prior posts, you were confused!? Sort of like how you are confused about what the truth is in advertising (false claims of sales).

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2) Warranty, Live Delivery, Health, and Genetic guarantees: Our terms and conditions make several references to items that we "intend" to include in the future, such as tanks, heat pads, thermostats, etc., which is why you see items being referred to as "it". in general, the terms and conditions are only meant to provide us with legal protection, but I'm prepared to make necessary changes as you all see fit.

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Your assurances mean nothing. The terms and conditions is your legal contract. Read it. It states that it is the full, complete and only legal binding contract. You are correct, they provide you with legal protection when people get screwed and come after you.

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I'll begin by making necessary provisions that guarantee free return shipping and the exchange of live animals, in the case that you are unhappy with the snake you receive, live delivery, good health, and published genetics. Please, let me know if I missed anything.

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Again, this means nothing. Your terms and conditions state otherwise.

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3) Our backgrounds: It's true that I've only been involved, hands-on, with this trade for several weeks, but I'm primarily the tech/web guy, so, although it remains important, it's not AS important as it would be if I was a dedicated breeder. I depend on Zack's knowledge and experience, and although he may not be the most experienced breeder or snake handler around, he certainly knows enough to get us where we need to be and to keep our snakes in good health.

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So you depend on a guy that a year ago didn't understand that you need a thermostat and used a heating pad? A guy who threw three and four snakes in together in a single tank? I think you need to explain a little more about Zach's vast knowledge and experience with ball pythons. From what I've seen here and other places, he has very little experience and doesn't understand basic ball python husbandry.

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Also, we're both from South Florida, but we now live in Louisville, Kentucky. Zack's been up here for about 3 years, and I just recently moved up a little more than 2 weeks ago. And no, the website wasn't thrown together in 2 weeks time. It was built and modified multiple times over the last 6 months. It was only because of our impending launch date that I finally moved up to KY. Is there anything I'm leaving out?

4) Banner advertising: It's become very obvious that our banner ads need to be modified so that there is no confusion as to whether or not we have already auctioned off several snakes. As of now, all of our display ads on google have been paused, and I'll be crafting some new ones shortly, none of which will imply that any auctions have been "sold".

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There was no confusion - you lied. When confronted, you did not say 'oh, that isn't a good idea'. You instead said it is just marketing. Trying to cover it up now and correct it only because multiple people have called you down on it is just placating the crowd. The truth is you lied. Admit it and stop trying to talk your way out of it.

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5) Multiple account registrations: This is actually my fault, as I told Zack to register a new account under the name zackBallBids, that way it was clear who and what he represented in his responses. I wasn't aware of his multiple account registrations, but that doesn't excuse him from the fact that he did what he did. The new account has been banned, which is a reasonable penalty. This will not happen again.

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Now you are making excuses and apologizing for Zach again. You told him to do it? He doesn't have the comprehension skills to understand it is against the rules after being directly told more than once? This is the expert you are relying on in your business?

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6) Constrictors Unlimited: Mike Wilbanks is not affiliated with us, and naming him as our "supplier" could have made him look bad, something I did not expect. Instead, I should have only mentioned that we purchased our snakes from him, and that's all. i apologize for creating any confusion, and I intend to post disclaimers on all of our live animal auctions from here on out.

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You tried to ride the coat tails of a reputable breeder to scam others. Shame on you. This is another typical method employed by scammers. You admit that your business model is similar to that of other scammers, but you are not. Now you use another method that scammers use, but we should trust you.

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7) Server crash: I've been doing a whole lot of advertising over the last two days, but I had no clue how far my efforts would reach. On day 1 we had about 2500 visitors. Today, on day 2, our dedicated server was completely overwhelmed, even after we made modifications. It became obvious that the server wouldn't survive the last few minutes of the auctions, so I tried to extend them by 1 hour to give us time to work things out. Being in such a chaotic atmosphere, I accidentally added an extra day to each auction, instead of an hour. Because of the server load time, it took me a while just to go back and modify the auction end time again so that it reflected the extra hour instead of the extra day. This is why you see users mentioning one or the other, or both.

I've been catching up with emails and live support requests since all of that happened, so I apologize again for taking so long to respond to this thread. And please, let me know if there is anything I left out.

-Avi =)

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Ending in a bunch of stuff and excuses about how wonderful and popular you are and trying to cover your butt. The fact is you have a business model that you admit is used by scammers. You have lied in your advertising. You have tried to give the impression that a reputable breeder is involved in your business (another scammer trick). You have yet to satisfy those who question your quarantine procedures (scammer red flag). The more you post, the more red flags that keep appearing. So, by all means continue to post.

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Originally Posted by aviBallBids

Hi guys!

Just a quick update: Our terms have been updated as I mentioned.

http://www.ballbids.com/page/terms-conditions

Please check them out and let me know if I left anything out.

Thanks! -Avi =)

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Still does not guarantee live delivery. Still does not guarantee sex. Still does not guarantee health. Still does not guarantee genetics. Still does not address how to deal with a sick snake. Still needs a lot of work. You really need to consult a lawyer and get someone with real experience involved.