Update on Fluffy's clutch + pics

Can't compete with a tomato sandwhich, those are my childhood favorites. But yea tomato sandwhich broke it down nice and easy and left me with nothing to say. So tushe. (sp?)

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Originally Posted by Rapture

captive bred and raised animals would be in better health than a lot of wild specimens you could find. They are fed every week year-round as babies, and fed every week except for during cooling as adults. CB's would most likely not have internal or external parisites hindering their health as many of those in the wild do. Even if brooding was stressful on the female, wouldn't a CB specimen be better prepared for it health wise than a WC female?

I thought the more important results of the experiment were the condition of the babies in each group. The maternally incubated babies pipped sooner, absorbed more from the egg before hatching, came out of the egg faster, were more alert, and larger when compared to the artificially incubated babies.

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well i think you say it all here... :cool:

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Originally Posted by recycling goddess

well i think you say it all here... :cool:

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I think agree to disagree will be the term of the day...

a new motto... of the month i think LOL

:D
off to eat a tomatoe sandwich... toasted of course! :D

Sounds good to me although I prefer mine with a pinch of balsamic vinegar

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rapture

I'm not sure what kind of information you'd need on the brooding females

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What I'd like to see is a study based on actual captive animals, using vermiculite or other more accepted incubating techniques. I'm very picky about research papers, as I've seen how people can manipulate numbers and findings to suit their purposes. Not saying that this has happened here, but it makes me a bit wary when looking at those studies. There are just so many different variables, that I'm afraid of what gets lost in translation .. so to speak. (from wild animals to captive - who's to say what the differences are unless they are physically measured) Plus it's only one study. I didn't see the other link. I will definitely check it out. Thanks.

Anyway, I really appreciate you bringing a very calm and thought out approach to this discussion. I think it's very stimulating. :gj:

I think I get what you mean... instead of assumingthe stats of the females collected, you'd rather see documentation on brooding females that are captive bred and raised in captivity so you can more easily apply the results to females of the same status such as your own?

And I appreciate any mature discussion/debate that we can all get differnet views from, and possibly learn some things, without anyone getting defensive or offended. I didn't even intend for this thread to be what it has become, but it's all good as long as we all respect each other's views and are as open minded as possible about it all.

Here are what the eggs look like today.

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...ffyoneggs4.jpg

You can see what I mean about them losing their shape. They have been gradually caving in like that. I'm afraid maybe the humidty has not been high enough at times. The saturated looking areas at the corners of the folds scare me a bit. I think only those two eggs have those spots on them.

The last time I candled was about a week ago I think, and I didn't do it for long, but all I saw was a red glow and veins in the eggs, even the ones that look the worst.

I guess only time will tell what the results are going to be of these guys. This is day 52.

*crossing fingers and trying to be very very patient!*

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...1/pipping1.jpg

http://i84.photobucket.com/albums/k1...1/pipping3.jpg