Live food...why? Honestly & with facts!

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Originally Posted by zeion97

You say as a last resort? Why? Why honestly? Because you don't like it, well that's your opinion.. But you don't need to argue and pick apart peoples responses so you can try to convert someone or in turn make them look bad. I feed live, so what's the problem? I do it carefully and I don't smack the poor rodent against a rock to stun it.

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No, not because I dislike it... because it's an unnecessary risk to the snake and it's arguably unnecessarily cruel. If your snake will refuse to eat a dead animal, well you're not going to let it starve... that'd be much more cruel. This is why I made the concession.

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This was a question thread, not a thread to try to convert everyone to F/T, or whatever someone sees fit. If you don't like the fact some of us feed live, well I really don't know what to tell you..

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Oh so I can't say my own opinion, even if it's contrary to some on here? I thought this was a "friendly" forum... :rolleyes:

I'm not trying to convert anyone, I am discussing the issue of ethics here. Which is entirely relevant when feeding a live, concious mammal to another animal.

It's not that I don't like the fact that people feed live, it's some of the reasons. "Because I like to see my snake kill things" - sadistic much? That's a legitimate reason?? What if I said I fed live snakes to my pet mongooses because "I enjoyed watching them kill things"? Would you like that? Of course you wouldn't... because it's completely disgusting and inappropriate. Using sadism as a reason shouldn't be acceptable. There are legitimate reasons to feed live to snakes, "because I enjoy watching things die" isn't one of them. :/

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Originally Posted by Gavin

No, not because I dislike it... because it's an unnecessary risk to the snake and it's arguably unnecessarily cruel. If your snake will refuse to eat a dead animal, well you're not going to let it starve... that'd be much more cruel. This is why I made the concession.



Oh so I can't say my own opinion, even if it's contrary to some on here? I thought this was a "friendly" forum... :rolleyes:

I'm not trying to convert anyone, I am discussing the issue of ethics here. Which is entirely relevant when feeding a live, concious mammal to another animal.

It's not that I don't like the fact that people feed live, it's some of the reasons. "Because I like to see my snake kill things" - sadistic much? That's a legitimate reason?? What if I said I fed live snakes to my pet mongooses because "I enjoyed watching them kill things"? Would you like that? Of course you wouldn't... because it's completely disgusting and inappropriate. Using sadism as a reason shouldn't be acceptable. There are legitimate reasons to feed live to snakes, "because I enjoy watching things die" isn't one of them. :/

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Don't try to turn my own words against me, and to add to it you did a horrible job at that.

What I said, you don't need to pick it all apart, you're entitled to your opinion. BUT, you do NOT need to force it on us or take apart our phrases. :rolleyes:

You're entitled to your opinion, have at it. But don't place your opinion above ours because you think it isn't right.

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Originally Posted by zeion97

Don't try to turn my own words against me, and to add to it you did a horrible job at that.

What I said, you don't need to pick it all apart, you're entitled to your opinion. BUT, you do NOT need to force it on us or take apart our phrases. :rolleyes:

You're entitled to your opinion, have at it. But don't place your opinion above ours because you think it isn't right.

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I'm not forcing it on any one. I was having a good discussion with WingedWolfPsion in fact... and "take apart" ? If I see a statement I feel needs responding to then I will respond to it, after all it's directed to me. Should I ignore it??

Opinions are fine and all, but I do not take too kindly to malicious people. That includes people who give snake owners a bad name. And I will say that, whether you like it or not. Do you really think it's good for people to start saying they convert f/t to live and smile about it as if they're genuinely satisfied with it? And say they feed live because they like to see things die? No, it isn't good at all because it will give the impression that snake owners are sadistic. And all those videos on YT where snake owners are laughing and egging the snake own... what about that? That's not a really good reflection of the community, opinion or no opinion!

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Originally Posted by Gavin

I'm not forcing it on any one. I was having a good discussion with WingedWolfPsion in fact... and "take apart" ? If I see a statement I feel needs responding to then I will respond with it, after all it's directed to me. Should I ignore it??

Opinions are fine and all, but I do not take too kindly to malicious people. And I will say that, whether you like it or not.

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lol.. I stand by what I said first. You just can't let yourself look bad. :rolleyes:

And yes, you should. Why, it's there opinion. As long as it isn't inhumane it shouldn't be yours to worry about.

Feeding live is part of having a pet. Like I said, if you don't like then I don't know what to tell you.

You can try to twist my words and make me look bad all you want, it doesn't bother me, but I won't feed you any more..lol

Another double post.. Wow. I apologize. Internet is being odd tonight.

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Originally Posted by zeion97

And yes, you should. Why, it's there opinion. As long as it isn't inhumane it shouldn't be yours to worry about.

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Yeah, because feeding something live to a snake because the person likes to watch things die isn't inhumane. Good one. I've noticed you've completely ignored the issue of people live feeding and posting it on YT for giggles. Yes, definitely not inhumane there. :rolleyes:

You seem to be falling back on the "it's their opinion" line. That's not an excuse for the behaviour I listed.

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Feeding live is part of having a pet. Like I said, if you don't like then I don't know what to tell you.

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And being all sadistic about is part of having a pet too I suppose? :rolleyes:

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You can try to twist my words and make me look bad all you want, it doesn't bother me, but I won't feed you any more..lol

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I don't need to, because you're completely missing the point.

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Originally Posted by Gavin

Yeah, because feeding something live to a snake because the person likes to watch things die isn't inhumane. Good one. I've noticed you've completely ignored the issue of people live feeding and posting it on YT for giggles. Yes, definitely not inhumane there. :rolleyes:

You seem to be falling back on the "it's their opinion" line. That's not an excuse for the behaviour I listed.



And being all sadistic about is part of having a pet too I suppose? :rolleyes:



I don't need to, because you're completely missing the point.

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No, no, no. I am not. You just want to make it look like it. I really don't know what you won't let it die... You keep going back to all this stuff on youtube, BUT you are talking about us. Oh yeah, I throw a live rat in and watch my Burmese kill it and laugh. Yeah you know me so well.. :rolleyes:

Why am I feeding you..? It's funny to be honest... You act like you're going somewhere but you're not.

And please, for me. Point out where I said the people on youtube were right for feeding for fun? Come on, give me some proof to that, until then i'll laugh it up some more.

Now I have more important things then this. If you want to keep posting your opinions and tell everyone it isn't right to feed live, go at it, but don't attack someone straight up like you first did.

Regards, and thanks for the laughs. :) :rofl:

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Originally Posted by zeion97

No, no, no. I am not. You just want to make it look like it. I really don't know what you won't let it die... You keep going back to all this stuff on youtube, BUT you are talking about us. Oh yeah, I throw a live rat in and watch my Burmese kill it and laugh. Yeah you know me so well.. :rolleyes:

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Please quote me where I said any one here as done such things. Specifically you.

For the record, I was bagging that one guy who said he feeds live because he enjoys watching his snake kill. That's being sadistic.

Using strawman arguments usually happens because people either can't comprehend what was written, or didn't read what was written. I've been very clear on this. If you're either not going to read or continue to misinterpret me then that's your problem, not mine.

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And please, for me. Point out where I said the people on youtube were right for feeding for fun? Come on, give me some proof to that, until then i'll laugh it up some more.

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Why should I give proof to something I have never accused you of doing? :confused:

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Now I have more important things then this. If you want to keep posting your opinions and tell everyone it isn't right to feed live, go at it, but don't attack someone straight up like you first did.

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I'll attack them because they're being an idiot. Converting f/t to eat only live is an idiotic thing to do, and is generally careless towards both the animal's welfare. If the snake eats f/t, why convert it to live? So they can enjoy watching their animal kill something? :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by snakesRkewl

I feed only live and have no inclination to feed f/t, I've converted numerous f/t feeders to live :D

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This was the post in question.

There's no wisdom or sense in doing this. In fact, this person seems to revel in it... which tells me there's an ulterior motive apart from simply "just feeding my snake". And you wonder why a lot of people label snake owners as sickos.

I believe I've already addressed the idea of it being cruel to rodents, and the time involved would be several hours. So, how about not being overly worried about the rodents, which have a reasonably quick and humane death, and not being overly worried about the snakes, which rarely take any injury from their prey...with the bonus that time is saved. The snakes also get fresh, healthy food.

I think your argument against live feeding would be like forcing your dog to wear shoes all the time because he might get a scratch on his pad. That would be minimizing his risk of injury as much as possible, lol.

My rats are more cruel to each when the occasional fight breaks out, than the snakes are to them. You can't keep the rats apart because of it, because that would be cruel as well, and predicting such fights isn't possible.

There's no end to the amount of discomfort in the world...but there is a limit to how much you need to be concerned about it.

Feed FT if you prefer, it's often more convenient and cheaper if you do not have local source for live rodents for the same price. If you are a breeder, however, you're going to have to feed live at some point, because many baby balls simply won't start on dead food. Your FT rodents came from a facility where rats occasionally killed each other messily. Just letting you know.

I don't agree with the practice of posting videos of feeding live animals to pets on YouTube, but I wouldn't call the human reaction to watching predation 'sadism'.
It's not sadism. Humans are predators, and when they watch these things happen, they identify with the predator--it excites their instincts, and there is nothing at all strange about that, or wrong with it. It is a natural reaction. It's the reason why chase and kill scenes are included in documentaries about predators--people get a thrill from it.
It's not the suffering of the prey that creates this reaction, it's the empathy for the hunter.

Nature is nature... When you have multiple ball pythons and breed them, you will have to feed something live at some point.

Me?? I only feed live up to a certain age. Once baby snakes are large enough to eat rat weans, they get prekilled. Still fresh. No F/T.

I agree wholeheartedly with the post before me by the way..

Breeding my own has gotten annoying as I must keep them in my house. Part of the reason I've gravitated away from balls and find myself going back to my first love of the larger species.. Plus they actually eat... Every time.. No matter what's offered..