For those who have used Equate to treat mites...

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Originally Posted by jglass38

I spent about 30 minutes on the phone with Bob Pound, the manufacturer of Provent A Mite.

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I hate to beat a dead horse, but this horse has been beaten so bad I figure I may as well get a few more licks in.

Although Bob provided excellent information (and thanks again Jamie for providing it), I just want to point out that he is biased and the information doesn't necessarily relate to Equate.

The point is that Equate has not been tested for use on reptiles, and Bob points out that the ingredients MAY be harmful. The point is, nobody knows without further research. The people that have used Equate without any problems do not know if there are any lasting or cumulative affects with the type of permethrins or "other" ingredients contained in the product. There may not be, but once again that is an unknown whereas it is known with PAM.

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Originally Posted by xdeus

I hate to beat a dead horse, but this horse has been beaten so bad I figure I may as well get a few more licks in.

Although Bob provided excellent information (and thanks again Jamie for providing it), I just want to point out that he is biased and the information doesn't necessarily relate to Equate.

The point is that Equate has not been tested for use on reptiles, and Bob points out that the ingredients MAY be harmful. The point is, nobody knows without further research. The people that have used Equate without any problems do not know if there are any lasting or cumulative affects with the type of permethrins or "other" ingredients contained in the product. There may not be, but once again that is an unknown whereas it is known with PAM.

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Your absolutely right...I spoke to Bob as well and he gave me his spiel on things but didn't say anything about equate except for that it was designed for humans yada yada yada...

He also stated that no company is going to necesarrily give up much information on the actual formula for the products and he really only spoke about the isomer permethrin that he uses in Prevent-o-mite.

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Originally Posted by AndrewH

I can see this conversation going only one way. Either you agree, or disagree. It doesn't make either point more valid...

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ah see i disagree with you again. this conversation is not going one way. you are posting your beliefs and thoughts. i'm posting mine... and then the greatest part of this... people who read the thread will make their own decisions for their own critters.

that's the best part of this forum... we all come here to get and share information. there is no "one right way" which is why there are forums. if there was only one right way,... it would be posted in a caresheet on the internet, every snake breeder would link to it and that would be that.

but... fortunately for all of us... we get to pick and choose what it is we want to do with our critters. we can bake our substrate... or not. we can choose to use Provent A Mite or Equate or Nix or Pest Strips... we can feed live or f/t or p/k... we can have two identical hides... or one... or none...

we get to make up our minds. :sunny: and this place of sharing knowledge is GREAT! *said in my best tony the tiger impersonation* https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...miley_abxb.gif

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

Your absolutely right...I spoke to Bob as well and he gave me his spiel on things but didn't say anything about equate except for that it was designed for humans yada yada yada...

He also stated that no company is going to necesarrily give up much information on the actual formula for the products and he really only spoke about the isomer permethrin that he uses in Prevent-o-mite.

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It seems to me that maybe you took a chance to use Lawrence's post to post exactly what I figured you would. Bob is biased..He must be!

There were more facts in that post than just whether they are the same. The facts about efficacy can't be disputed. The governing body REQUIRES that people who put Permethrin in products for HUMAN use make sure that the proper chemicals are added so that it breaks down after a short period of time and becomes inert. This is so when you treat your child for head lice, the chemicals don't remain on their head for weeks and possibly cause neurological problems.

Here is a test for you (from Bob so I guess you could claim bias again). Take two tubs. Spray one down with Equate and one with Prevent A Mite. Let them both dry. Then wash them both with soap and water multiple times. Now put a cricket in each. The Prevent A Mite treated tub should kill the cricket. The other should have no effect as it is easily washed away and broken down. Hardly long lasting protection against not just mites but their eggs. What good is a product that just kills the mites but does NOTHING to kill any remain eggs that will hatch possibly weeks later?

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Originally Posted by jglass38

It seems to me that maybe you took a chance to use Lawrence's post to post exactly what I figured you would. Bob is biased..He must be!

There were more facts in that post than just whether they are the same. The facts about efficacy can't be disputed. The governing body REQUIRES that people who put Permethrin in products for HUMAN use make sure that the proper chemicals are added so that it breaks down after a short period of time and becomes inert. This is so when you treat your child for head lice, the chemicals don't remain on their head for weeks and possibly cause neurological problems.

Here is a test for you (from Bob so I guess you could claim bias again). Take two tubs. Spray one down with Equate and one with Prevent A Mite. Let them both dry. Then wash them both with soap and water multiple times. Now put a cricket in each. The Prevent A Mite treated tub should kill the cricket. The other should have no effect as it is easily washed away and broken down. Hardly long lasting protection against not just mites but their eggs. What good is a product that just kills the mites but does NOTHING to kill any remain eggs that will hatch possibly weeks later?

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The fact is, Equate works, you have multiple people on this very forum stating so and you just want to keep shoving your way or the high way attitude on everyone! Use PAM or Equate, they both work great and treating and preventing mites.

Edit: Oops! I forgot desert!

http://i94.photobucket.com/albums/l1.../cherrypie.jpg

Come on guys....


~push~ I'M getting the last word in here!
~shove~ No, I AM!
~push~ Nuh uh! Me!
~shove~ My last word! Final!
~push~ Lemme just say this...
~shove~ The last word is MINE...now shut up!
~push~ YOU shut up!
~shove~ No, YOU!
~push~ YOU!

:rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

The fact is, Equate works, you have multiple people on this very forum stating so and you just want to keep shoving your way or the high way attitude on everyone! Use PAM or Equate, they both work great and treating and preventing mites.

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Once again you miss the point! Just because something works (or so you say) doesn't mean that it is the right thing for the animal. You are freely recommending something that is being used in a manner other than the label states and may have long term effects. Equate DOES NOT prevent mites. It is just not possible unless it was a long lasting product. That has been explained but you don't want to hear it. You sound like a little child and I fully expect a picture of a piece of pie next.

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Originally Posted by JLC

Come on guys....


~push~ I'M getting the last word in here!
~shove~ No, I AM!
~push~ Nuh uh! Me!
~shove~ My last word! Final!
~push~ Lemme just say this...
~shove~ The last word is MINE...now shut up!
~push~ YOU shut up!
~shove~ No, YOU!
~push~ YOU!

:rolleyes:

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As I stated, I will continue to answer every ridiculous post with a truthful explanation of why its not only not fact but could be dangerous. We, as EXPERIENCED keepers need to make sure that the inexperienced, new keepers don't follow a path that may be harmful to their animal. That is done by educating them and giving them the tools to make the right decision. Until Equate has been tested and approved for use in reptiles, Steven shouldn't be recommending it to anyone.

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Originally Posted by djslurp1200

The fact is, Equate works, you have multiple people on this very forum stating so and you just want to keep shoving your way or the high way attitude on everyone! Use PAM or Equate, they both work great and treating and preventing mites.

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Sure, Equate kills mites, albeit temporarily as the substance breaks down too quickly to kill the eggs and larvae. It has been proven that Provent-a-Mite kills mites in ALL stages of its lifecycle. Equate, consequently, has not been proven to do that.

That's not the issue here...its that Equate is dangerous to reptiles and inadvisable to be used by new keepers that are inexperienced with it. That includes you Steven, as you previously stated that you have zero experience with it. Don't make dumb statements like "Use PAM or Equate, they both work great," you might end up being responsible for a new keeper killing their animal. I'm not willing to advocate something like that, niether should you, regardless of what you've been told by your so-called sources that have yet to be named.

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Originally Posted by jglass38

It seems to me that maybe you took a chance to use Lawrence's post to post exactly what I figured you would. Bob is biased..He must be!

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After thinking about my last post I shouldn't have stated that Bob was biased, although it should be pointed out that he has the potential for being biased solely due to his position in this situation. His information is probably just as valid as a neutral party, but unfortunately his role in this topic prevents him from being considered neutral.