Ethics of Hybrids

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Originally Posted by Pintado

I personally do not care whether someone chooses to create a hybrid, in the strict definition of species that I subscribe to, a hybrid is incapable of reproducing. Mules are quite useful sometimes.
Pinner

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I believe that a certain percentage of mules are capable of reproducing but that percentage is so low that it isn't worth people trying to breed, it is easier to make more the old fashion way.

I do not agree with hybridization (i am speaking about animals since humans have already screwed themselves up so much) in the wild hybridization does occur with animals found in the same geographic region, though uncommon it has been known to occur. Now hybridizing species that don't have natural contact with each other may have genetic problems that humans as breeder's cannot detect. there may be internal constrictions of passageways (blood vessels etc), never mind increase susseptability to disease and pathogens. There is no way to detect if or when a problem will occur. If these hybrids ever did reach wild populations it could cause massive problems. if a ball x blood cross ever reached the wild in say florida it wouldn't affect native populations of snakes unless they were carrying some disease. now if enough of them were to reach the wild then they could cause problems with the native ecology just like if any species were to reach the wild.

It is also understandable that it is a concern that the captive populations will become impure. when people go to buy a dog most (not all) want a pure bred with papers, now if there was a wolf hybrid many people would not like that as a pet. just look at the number of mute compared to the number of pure breds in pounds.

just my opinion, not trying to change anyone's opinion.

~mike

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Originally Posted by wildlifewarrior

I do not agree with hybridization (i am speaking about animals since humans have already screwed themselves up so much)

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I'm just wondering what you mean by human hybridization (ie: humans screwing themselves up so much already)? I'm fairly sure humans can't reproduce with other species. Unless you're referring to race-mixing--which isn't "screwed up" at all. I guess I'm just confused--clarify for me?

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Originally Posted by AzureN1ght

I'm just wondering what you mean by human hybridization (ie: humans screwing themselves up so much already)? I'm fairly sure humans can't reproduce with other species. Unless you're referring to race-mixing--which isn't "screwed up" at all. I guess I'm just confused--clarify for me?

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You mean you have not seen the offspring of human x goat? It was all over Star magazine!

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Originally Posted by tmlowe5704

You mean you have not seen the offspring of human x goat? It was all over Star magazine!

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Or Bat-Boy! :P

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Originally Posted by Dread

So Dougie are you a moral relativist or a moral pluralist?

Not to be a stickler, but either way you are setting yourself up to support the Holocaust, Apartheid, and slavery to name but a few. You can't be flippant in these discussions :)

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I was reffering to this post with the "humans screwing themseleves up" not genetically but through views of pure race, and import/export of human. humans are just subspecies of each other, but i was just trying to keep the topic on animal hybridization, i guess what would have been a better term was "screwed up their own attempts at keeping the race pure since there is no pure perfect human race"

I hope that clears up what i ment :) if not let me know i will try to clear it up again, i know what i mean in my head but it is hard to get it out on a forum, ya know?

~mike

I don't think there's any ethical or moral issues at all, as long as records are diligently kept and used honestly.


I am not in favor of hybridization in general, coming from the Cichlid hobby it's a big issue!
However, I am aware of my own willingness to own hybrid cats (I have Bengals) and line-bred snakes & fish, so in practice I am in favor of it though I like to deny it in my dark little mind :P

I would love to be a purist, but I'm part of the problem with my consumer habits.

Personally I'm all in favor of hybridism. I love hybrid reptiles. The only time I am against it is when strict records are not kept, or someone tries to pass it off as the next big thing. I'll give an example :P....

An African Rock x Burmese Python sells for $650-$1000 respectably. Now a 'breeder' (not giving names, but you know who ;)) Decides to sell his animals as a huge investment, charging outrageous amounts for their animals which aren't that high a quality in the first place. They edit the photos to make them look like doritos, as well as try and pass them off as 50/50's, when they're really 25/75's. This is giving both the hybridists and breeders a bad name by attempting to rip people off. Now...I'm not against hybrids. I just hate it when people pass them off as investments making them viewed as you would a color morph, or misrepresent their animals by not telling what exactly it is mixed with or what percentage it is. You 'can' make designer snakes with wicked patterns and colors, but in the end all you get is a mixed species....

I am okay with producing hybrids as long as ppaperwork is kept on them... down the line I'd like to know if I am really buying a 100% BCC or not, for example.

Also, I would hate for hybrids to outnumber pure species animals. I think it would be horrible if the only species we are able to observe are mixed species animals.

I don't like hybrids at all. It is[in my opinion] like playing God. In nature, for instance, I highly doubt that a ball and a blood would reproduce. :colbert:

For those who are interested in discussing their opinions (as well as posting them for all to see), does anyone feel like supporting/defending them with articulate reasoning?

How about the "playing God" side address the following issues and get back to us:
-Free Will / Human Agency
-Apparent lack of species barrier for most snakes
-Natural hybridization and current views on Evolution

I think this is a good balance, the Faithful are familiar with Free Will (it is their gift), the 'scientists' eat and breathe Evolution, and all the hobbyists (anyone on the forum) can meet on the fact that the species barrier is a pittance in snakes when compared to other quotidien animals.

Just for the record, I have not a care in the world what stance anyone takes on this issue. But if you blindly side one way or the other based on pedestrian theology or bastardized science you might want to re-evaluate the way you approach the topic.