Live food...why? Honestly & with facts!

No need for name calling Gavin...this is supposed to be a friendly forum. Differences in opinion are always welcome, name calling is not necessary.

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Originally Posted by Gavin

I have no problem with people feeding live rodents to their snakes, as long as it's done respectfully and the snake can't take a dead animal. What I do have a problem with though, is people feeding live to their snakes simply because it's "cool" or enjoy watching things die. I don't know what you folks think about people posting live feeding videos on YT, but most of the time it is done maliciously - not for the snake's benefit, but to put the feeder through unnecessary pain. Like as if it were a snuff film.



:rolleyes:

Since when does a ferret need live food? And where did you get that 120% from? Made that up did you?

Rats can be quite dangerous to ferrets when cornered. Live feeding a ferret is just irresponsible and cruel... it's just not necessary, they do not need live animals in their diets. Don't give me this "enrichment" BS either, you can use a dead mouse, tie it to a string and make a game out of that. Or use toys made for ferrets. Or use your hand to wrestle/tickle them - there's your enrichment.

I've seen people on YT put mice in bathtubs, call that "hunting" while they're either giggling about it in the background, putting rock music in the background, calling it an "epic battle" etc. IMO, most people feed live to ferrets just to watch their animal kill something. It's a power thing.



This is exactly the reason why snake owners get a bad rap, because of idiots like you. Why would you want to: a) put your snake at unnecessary risk and b) put the feeder animal through unnecessary suffering? Sounds like a sicko to me.

I guess you're one of those people who see feeder animals as objects, and not living, breathing, feeling creatures. They can feel pain too you know. That's why we have a moral responsibility to minimise suffering where possible. After all, it is giving up its life for your snake... at least be decent about it.

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Really... I smell a troll, and it's not because you're new and have 1 post, you type the same as someone we all know. :rolleyes: if you're not then my bad.

To this... Why would you insult Jerry? Really? We all have our OPINIONS, what gives you the right to attack him though...? :\

It's possible that he breeds his own rodents, so live is most convenient.

I'm not sure where the idea arises that live feeding is cruel to rodents. I'm personally dubious about how comfortable CO2 euthanasia is, but when a snake constricts a rodent, the rodent is so startled, its body floods with adrenalin, which likely numbs it to any pain from the teeth--they are so sharp, they aren't very painful anyhow. Loss of consciousness occurs within seconds, as the blood flow to the animal's brain is cut off.

Yes, occasionally a snake will hit the animal wrong and it will take longer, but that isn't the norm, and I'm sure that rodents fighting amongst themselves cause more unpleasantness than that, in rodent facilities.

There's no cruelty issue with live feeding, only safety issues.

Even when people are intentionally being malicious?

Sorry, but I will never, ever accept live feeding a ferret. Or intentionally throwing a rat to a snapping turtle and posting it on YT for the lulz. Those sorts of things. It just simply isn't needed at all, it's unnecessarily cruel. Seems like it is done because the owner gets a kick out of watching things die. I have no issue with those who live feed if it's a last resort... but I'm hearing stuff like "because it's convenient". Well, I'd like to see a decent backup of that argument because is that little bit of convenience worth the risk to the snake? I don't understand how it's any more convenient feeding live when with pre-killed, there is no issue of the animal biting back, no issue of prolonged suffering to the prey animal and no issue of parasites. Cheaper in bulk too (depending on where you live).

Now if this convenience comes from the fact that the snake cannot be fed f/t for whatever reason, then fair enough. I can understand. What I can't understand is doing it even if the snake accepts f/t.

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Originally Posted by Gavin

Even when people are intentionally being malicious?

Sorry, but I will never, ever accept live feeding a ferret. Or intentionally throwing a rat to a snapping turtle and posting it on YT for the lulz. Those sorts of things. It just simply isn't needed at all, it's unnecessarily cruel. Seems like it is done because the owner gets a kick out of watching things die. I have no issue with those who live feed if it's a last resort... but I'm hearing stuff like "because it's convenient". Well, I'd like to see a decent backup of that argument because is that little bit of convenience worth the risk to the snake? I don't understand how it's any more convenient feeding live when with pre-killed, there is no issue of the animal biting back, no issue of prolonged suffering to the prey animal and no issue of parasites. Cheaper in bulk too (depending on where you live).

Now if this convenience comes from the fact that the snake cannot be fed f/t for whatever reason, then fair enough. I can understand. What I can't understand is doing it even if the snake accepts f/t.

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So I have TWO snakes that will only take LIVE, won't eat F/T or Pre-killed. (i've wasted quite a few rodents..) Am I supposed to let them starve? I say not. It's part of owning a animal. Some times you have to feed live and some times F/T, it really all depends on the snake.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

I'm not sure where the idea arises that live feeding is cruel to rodents.

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The idea arises when people start doing it for show (ie. for entertainment).

Have you ever seen that video of a live rat being put in with a snapping turtle? Horrible stuff. It wasn't 'nature at work', it was some guy getting his jollies. That's the kind of thing I'm talking about.

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There's no cruelty issue with live feeding, only safety issues.

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I beg to differ. You're throwing the animal in an enclosure, where it will most likely be dreadfully frightened, unable to escape. I also cast doubt on your assessment on what the animal feels, or how long it takes to die. You do not know for sure how much adrenalin there would actually be, or whether it will actually numb any pain at all.

And what about with ferrets, and cats? A domesticated ferret that has never hunted in its life will most likely kill the animal slowly, or even play around with it. Not to mention that both these animals do not need a live animal thrown to it at all. To me, it's not very fair to do that. If the ferret and/or cat catches a mouse by itself, fair enough. But really, canned hunts... ??

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Originally Posted by zeion97

So I have TWO snakes that will only take LIVE, won't eat F/T or Pre-killed. (i've wasted quite a few rodents..) Am I supposed to let them starve? I say not. It's part of owning a animal. Some times you have to feed live and some times F/T, it really all depends on the snake.

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You know, reading is pretty valuable on forums. Read what I said: I said I have no issue with feeding live if it's a last resort thing.

But when you have people saying that they intentionally convert snakes from f/t to live... well, if I don't have a right to say that they're giving snake owners a bad name, then what right do they have putting snakes at risk and putting another animal through unnecessary pain?

As I said, the concept of live feeding irks me when people start doing it when it's completely unnecessary or "just for fun". There's that distinction. Snake owners get a bad rap because idiots put live feeding videos on YT and giggle/laugh at the mouse/rat slowly dying. Live feeding itself doesn't annoy me, but that kind of stuff does. It shows a complete disrespect to life - I mean, how callous would you have to be to film it and laugh at the prey's demise?

If you have a large collection, using tongs to dangle a rodent before each one, which may take many minutes to decide it's hungry, is more than a little bit of inconvenience. It's a tremendous addition of time, which some folks may simply not have to spare. (Time better spent cleaning, etc).

The risk to the snake is really quite minimal, and as I've pointed out, a snake can even be injured by a dead rodent.

I agree that feeding a mouse to a snapping turtle is unnecessary cruelty, I've seen that video as well.
While I've never owned a ferret, it's hard to imagine that a ferret does not kill extremely quickly. I have no opinion on that. I do agree, however, that the ferret would be just as happy with a dead rat, and a toy mouse on a string. Ferrets, after all, are not wild animals.

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Originally Posted by WingedWolfPsion

If you have a large collection, using tongs to dangle a rodent before each one, which may take many minutes to decide it's hungry, is more than a little bit of inconvenience. It's a tremendous addition of time, which some folks may simply not have to spare. (Time better spent cleaning, etc).

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I don't really think half an hour to an hour (or laziness for that matter) is an excuse to avoid being a little kinder. If it's an inconvenience to make another animal's death easier/less painful, well, I just don't know what to say about that...

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The risk to the snake is really quite minimal, and as I've pointed out, a snake can even be injured by a dead rodent.

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The point would be to minimise the risk as much as possible, it is still there. Much like not wearing a seatbelt. From what, scratches? Which would be a significantly lesser chance of happening than something more serious, like a bite.

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While I've never owned a ferret, it's hard to imagine that a ferret does not kill extremely quickly. I have no opinion on that. I do agree, however, that the ferret would be just as happy with a dead rat, and a toy mouse on a string. Ferrets, after all, are not wild animals.

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Ferrets can be clumsy animals, especially one that has no experience killing anything at all. Can't expect them to be master killers overnight. There's a reason why you hardly ever see pre-killed feedings on YT for ferrets - because it's boring/not as exhilarating for the owner. Not a snuff film.

BTW, here's a link to a good video that pretty much sums up my thoughts on the whole issue:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbzKsasn7EE

Veteran snake owner with over 20 years of experience... he's even weened a wild snake off live. He's got 3 other parts to it, I recommend watching it.

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Originally Posted by Gavin

You know, reading is pretty valuable on forums. Read what I said: I said I have no issue with feeding live if it's a last resort thing.

But when you have people saying that they intentionally convert snakes from f/t to live... well, if I don't have a right to say that they're giving snake owners a bad name, then what right do they have putting snakes at risk and putting another animal through unnecessary pain?

As I said, the concept of live feeding irks me when people start doing it when it's completely unnecessary or "just for fun". There's that distinction. Snake owners get a bad rap because idiots put live feeding videos on YT and giggle/laugh at the mouse/rat slowly dying. Live feeding itself doesn't annoy me, but that kind of stuff does. It shows a complete disrespect to life - I mean, how callous would you have to be to film it and laugh at the prey's demise?

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To your insult.. Really?

You say as a last resort? Why? Why honestly? Because you don't like it, well that's your opinion.. But you don't need to argue and pick apart peoples responses so you can try to convert someone or in turn make them look bad. I feed live, so what's the problem? I do it carefully and I don't smack the poor rodent against a rock to stun it.

This was a question thread, not a thread to try to convert everyone to F/T, or whatever someone sees fit. If you don't like the fact some of us feed live, well I really don't know what to tell you..