Put it down already

i feel that i am one of the reasons this thread was started and i am just going to stay out of it.

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Originally Posted by Eventide

Very good point. My vet wouldn't do that, per se, but I know he won't put down a reptile just because the owners don't want it anymore (and it doesn't have a life-threatening condition). I wouldn't doubt that some would do what you say.

As for the AMVA, I never said they were the be-all and end-all of the whole freezing debate. That is why I posted multiple citations, including some scientific papers on the subject.

As for the animal cruelty laws, it does indeed vary state by state. I went looking for summaries of cruelty laws 'cause I wouldn't doubt that some don't count reptiles (grr). Arizona (my state) specifically says "any animal under the person's custody or control." Looks like some other states do too, but sadly, some don't. Makes me sad.

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Thanks for posting those -- somehow I missed the actual papers. I'll definitely have to go back and read them. :)

Not that I'm hoping to have to put any babies down any time soon -- oh gosh, that would be awful! Of course, the other option, assuming it isn't suffering, is just to keep it around as a pet -- as long as it stays in your custody, you know nobody's breeding it!

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Originally Posted by dmaricle

i feel that i am one of the reasons this thread was started and i am just going to stay out of it.

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I'm sorry. Please don't feel pressured into not posting because of the drama that occurred here. I'm not angry at anyone, and I don't get mad when people disagree with me. I am also more than willing to listen to others' opinions and admit when I'm wrong. I just get a bit annoyed when people attack me instead of my arguments. :)

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Originally Posted by Serpent_Nirvana

Thanks for posting those -- somehow I missed the actual papers. I'll definitely have to go back and read them. :)

Not that I'm hoping to have to put any babies down any time soon -- oh gosh, that would be awful! Of course, the other option, assuming it isn't suffering, is just to keep it around as a pet -- as long as it stays in your custody, you know nobody's breeding it!

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No worries! :)

Exactly! But yeah, I don't really want to contemplate when I might have to make that decision either. I've already had to make it with a couple leopard geckos.... I'd rather not do it anymore. :( Alas, I know if I'm going to be breeding pythons, it's going to come up sooner or later.

I agree, put it down.

Although, if the kink is minor and the snake can eat and develop just fine I wouldn't put it down. Personally I wouldn't waist a bunch of time assist feeding a baby for months on end either. I don't want a snake that needs to be assist fed for the next 30 years. If a cat needed to have food forced down its' throat every day most people would let the poor thing go, same goes for a snake.

You know... you "people" that are so quick to declare that freezing a reptile is inhumane.... Why have you refused to answer my one question? If freezing is so bad, what is a humane way to put down a reptile? What studies have been done to show that the way you mention is in fact less painful / stressful to a reptile then freezing?

What do you mean a snake can't have a headache? Are you kidding me? Are they some kind of superior being that is not capable of feeling pain?

Finally, I think a lot of the people holding hands and chanting "don't freeze, it hurts" genuinely don't have a clue, and aren't living in the real world. I am no way shape or form suggesting that freezing a reptile is inhumane. See below for what I mean about you kiddies not having a clue.

It is 7:00pm on a Sunday. The hobbyist ball breeder checks on his eggs and they have piped!!!!! He is so excited and filled with absolute happiness, until he sees the one in the corner is completed and totally jacked up. its face is all twisted up and its back is as crooked as a corkscrew. It keeps banging its head into the side of the tub... It looks like it is trying to open its mouth but its jaw is so crooked it can't open it.

What would you do? Keep in mind it is 7:00pm on a Sunday night. Going to the vet on Monday is out of the quesiton because you have to work Monday morning, and it is of course the busiest day of the week. You also have to do all the normal stuff of taking the kids to school and going to practice the second you get home from work. Tuesday probably isn't going to work either. Oh yeah, and keep in mind the snake is still banging its head against the wall.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Oh yeah, and keep in mind the snake is still banging its head against the wall.

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I say we get a miniature drumset for it to beat its head on, attach a sound track, add some soulful lyrics and put it on Youtube.

We should be rich by the end of the week.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

You know... you "people" that are so quick to declare that freezing a reptile is inhumane.... Why have you refused to answer my one question? If freezing is so bad, what is a humane way to put down a reptile? What studies have been done to show that the way you mention is in fact less painful / stressful to a reptile then freezing?

What do you mean a snake can't have a headache? Are you kidding me? Are they some kind of superior being that is not capable of feeling pain?

Finally, I think a lot of the people holding hands and chanting "don't freeze, it hurts" genuinely don't have a clue, and aren't living in the real world. I am no way shape or form suggesting that freezing a reptile is inhumane. See below for what I mean about you kiddies not having a clue.

It is 7:00pm on a Sunday. The hobbyist ball breeder checks on his eggs and they have piped!!!!! He is so excited and filled with absolute happiness, until he sees the one in the corner is completed and totally jacked up. its face is all twisted up and its back is as crooked as a corkscrew. It keeps banging its head into the side of the tub... It looks like it is trying to open its mouth but its jaw is so crooked it can't open it.

What would you do? Keep in mind it is 7:00pm on a Sunday night. Going to the vet on Monday is out of the quesiton because you have to work Monday morning, and it is of course the busiest day of the week. You also have to do all the normal stuff of taking the kids to school and going to practice the second you get home from work. Tuesday probably isn't going to work either. Oh yeah, and keep in mind the snake is still banging its head against the wall.

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I'd freeze it

Oh and add the fact that most vets don't deal with reptiles and they might mess things up even more. We have a local vet, Dr. Killmore (Keemore is his given name) and he has sent DOGS home to be buried that came back alive and brain dead. I would rather freeze than take that baby to any vet around here, none of them deal with reptiles in a 40 mile radius of me, possibly even a bigger radius than that! Although I'd freeze if there was a vet that knew a thing or two about reptiles. That's just my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Eventide

I just get a bit annoyed when people attack me instead of my arguments. :)

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Yes, because we all know that what type of person you are, whether you are the type to bother to check anything, to take the time to verify or negate claims made, or just believe wholesale what ever you are told, puking up misinformation or outright lies, should have NO bearing on whether or not anyone believes you when you make outrageous or flat out fallacious statements.

Should it?

I get a bit annoyed when people lie to me. I get a bit annoyed when they spread misinformation. I get a bit annoyed when they lie, spread misinformation and then get all butthurt when I get annoyed.

I'm sure your annoyance at being caught lying and spreading rumors, unfounded and false rumors, trumps my mere annoyance at your.... shall we be generous and call it an enthusiasm for attention....

This kind of pertains to this thread (kind of joking as well)....Does anyone know if they still use nitrous oxide in cool whip cans? If anyone has ever read the book "frog salad" they get it.

I was also thinking, on this freeze debate, would people rather to simply chop off their heads or break their necks? That's quick and painless......and it's exactly how you off a chicken. I don't see why snakes would have any higher status that would require a vet, it's just the humane factor.

Personally I'd prefer to freeze.....it's less bloody. Then again I'm a farm girl who butchered half a dozen chickens the old fashioned way a few weeks ago. :rolleyes: