I think my snake loves me

:D My Kingsnake shows that he loves me by chomping down on my finger and not letting go!!! :sarcasm: :D

T

I apologize if this has already been said because I haven't read this entire thread, but based on this definition alone all animals that participate in sexual reproduction via internal fertilization, and must perform intercourse, experience "love."

"Dictionary dot com:
and i hope im not diminishing it..?
1. a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.
2. a feeling of warm personal attachment or deep affection, as for a parent, child, or friend.
3. sexual passion or desire.
4. a person toward whom love is felt; beloved person; sweetheart.
5. (used in direct address as a term of endearment, affection, or the like): Would you like to see a movie, love?
6. a love affair; an intensely amorous incident; amour.
7. sexual intercourse; copulation. "

Although I would like to think my ball python loves me, as far as I know, they are incapable of feeling complex emotions such as love. They only really understand "FOOD!" Or "ENEMY! HIDE!" Or maybe sleepy. Whenever I have my BP out, he always looked for the darkest place he can find withing his sight range. But I will not tell people that their opinions are wrong on something that is not really that important.

Whenever I have him around my neck and he starts to get really comfortable, and tightens a little, I always go "Sweetheart mommy can't breathe" and he loosens up. While I have a hunch that this has more to do with the movement of my voicebox than any compassion my baby feels for me.....it's still nice to think that he's just trying to hug me:P

they're not smart enough to love or hate someone. If they get fed every time they smell you then they will correlate your presence with the satisfaction of eating. If you hang out with a snake and chill it will learn that your not a predator and become more relaxed around you. It's gonna correlate instincts with feelings not emotions.:cool:

Yeah well I think my gtp hates me. Little turd tagged me about 6 times today.....even when little they have some pop to them.

After my recent experience getting into boas and observing mine's behavior, even I was a little taken aback as it seems she recognizes and trusts me. She'll hiss if perturbed/woken up and will continue hissing if someone else is bothering her, but she'll behave as soon as she smells my hand with her tongue. No signs of affection, sure, but it's all too obvious this reptile can learn to recognize certain individuals, and either associate them with safety and trust, or learn to hate them as they are a recognized threat.
And the fact that my snakes may at least trust me is good enough for me. :gj:

P.S. Also, the parts they have in their brain relative to mammals is irrelevant. Animals like parrots do not have the same brain anatomy as mammals do, but their brains can preform the exact same cognitive tasks that the mammals will do, if not better, only the brain activity will actually occur in an entirely different region of the brain. Same task, different region. Recent scientific studies are also finding this is very well holding true with reptiles. And bear in mind the fact that varanids, iguanids, and agamids are some of the smartest families of lizards, they're also the closest relatives of the snakes.
Needless to say, I think it would be inaccurate to assume that reptiles are the dull logs they seemed to be some 20 years ago. They're more than just instinctual, biological machines.

I think this is quite an interesting thread and I read about 30 pages before I'm putting my opinion out there.

I agree with people who have stated that we have to acknowledge that every species has its own "emotions" no matter how low on the food chain or how basic it's dna, what we each perceive as love is how we would answer this question. Do I believe a snake would get heart eyes and be affectionate towards me? No. Do I believe that a life form can look to you for protection and nurturing? Yes.

Science can tell us that something is impossible but it can still happen. I feel like the whole "snakes don't have emotions" is kind of a popular opinion that everyone just regurgitates. If there we no emotions or something like it pertaining to these animals, logic says they would all behave exactly the same to every stimulus. I believe the very fact that every snake has its own "personality" shows they have a small, if different from ours, capacity for emotion.

Just my opinion, meaning this is how I think without trying to persuade anyone to feel the same.

So I guess it doesn't really matter whether they love me. I love it when my python Delphi crawls up the buttons on my shirt and flicks my nose with her tongue, before settling down in folds of the fabric with just her head sticking out. Delphi doesn't need to do that, but she often does. It seems like a ritual. Perhaps it is a primitive sort of greeting, or perhaps it is just routine behavior that I have attached to much meaning to. I love when my boa crawls out of is cage and onto my hand. Maybe he is just looking for warmth, but then again his cage has many warm places, and he chooses to come out and sit with me in a room where the temperature and humidity are not in his range. Yet still he actively comes out of his cage and wraps round my arm. Is this a rudimentary friendship or is the animal just interested in a novel experience? How would anyone tell?

Most importantly who really cares?

We keep snakes because we love them, not because they might love us.

Sooo I'm going to have to go against the grain and say that snakes can feel something for us. Just because they lack the expressive faces of cats or dogs, does not exclude them from affection. My BP and I have different routines for when we're going to be feeding or handling. She responds to my voice when I signal a handling time and comes out of her hide to greet me. I love my Tiny Snake.....:P

I have a male, who don't start locking with females, just if I'm near the tub. The same male few times started to fight with me, like I'm an other male, and few times tried to lock with my hand.

I think he accept me in a bit strange way...

I have 1 snake that you can tell wants my company all my BPs are mindless but my bigger breeds seem to have more wits, my two boas are weirdos lol, but my retic god almighty this male retic has emotions I knkw it is not possible but he Is curious when I am in the room wants to be out never bit me once, but if a rat is in his cage he goes crazy, he just might be smart enough not to bite my hand bc it isn't a rat and that's enough brains for me

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Felidae

I have a male, who don't start locking with females, just if I'm near the tub. The same male few times started to fight with me, like I'm an other male, and few times tried to lock with my hand.

I think he accept me in a bit strange way...

---

That is absolutely hilarious!


I've always found it strange that people say reptiles don't have emotions. They can feel fear, anger, and some highly intelligent lizards even get lonely and will hold a grudge. If they can feel this, why wouldn't they be able to feel joy, pleasure or even love?

Marshall will raise his head up and wait for a chin scratch. He enjoys licking my face as well. One thing I noticed is when my dad went to pet his head, marshall instantly pulled his head back. But when I attempted to pet his head, he seemed very content.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Believe me, he do that without any emotions. He's just... a lovely freak.
I disinfect my hands between touching every tub or cage, but I think his senses just better then my other snakes senses.
About the locking, I think he need a little competition to get interested about the girls. Someone use plugs, someone sheds. Me, well... my presence.

My normal BCI girl seems to love to come out and sit on me or she will sit outside her cage next to me when im working on the computer. I swear she likes the company.

I feel like i can be unbiased as i haven't had a snake before, I've got a question for this thread lol.

do any of your snakes tolerate or even seem to want to be out around you, but when a approached by another (Experienced handler, not talking about toddlers or anything) gets defensive, hides, or even strikes at them if they try to pick them up?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xyzpdq75

I feel like i can be unbiased as i haven't had a snake before, I've got a question for this thread lol.

do any of your snakes tolerate or even seem to want to be out around you, but when a approached by another (Experienced handler, not talking about toddlers or anything) gets defensive, hides, or even strikes at them if they try to pick them up?

---

Yes!


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xyzpdq75

I feel like i can be unbiased as i haven't had a snake before, I've got a question for this thread lol.

do any of your snakes tolerate or even seem to want to be out around you, but when a approached by another (Experienced handler, not talking about toddlers or anything) gets defensive, hides, or even strikes at them if they try to pick them up?

---

Absolutely.

I do all the cleaning, feeding, regular husbandry monitoring, and they seem nice and cute with me.
But when my fiancee handles them (especially my male burms), then they get all cuddly! like going to her face and "kiss" her, even wrap themselves around her arm and neck and just chill there while she goes around the house and does her stuff :oops: at some point they even went over her shoulder and stayed there kinda like giving my fiancee a hug (without hands of course).
but with me, none of those things ever happened, closest i got is felling asleep in front of the TV with my male burm cuddled on my face. and that's it.
I swear they're kinda attracted to different personalities of human being. (or just me being jealous).
with that being said, my fiancee was the one who wanted to rescue those 2 burms from a pet shop which keeps them in poor husbandry (mites, minor scale rot, etc).
I think they're just being grateful to my fiancee, while my fiancee calls me the "janitor" and that i stink of snake poop, that's why they don't really bond to me.. haha!

I know my BP loves me. Part of it is my maternal instincts. You know when someone (animal or human) is projecting love.

Secondly, my Seshat is incredibly affectionate and adores being held. She bursts to life. When she is on me she constantly kissing me, either on the cheek, ears (she loves my ears for some reason), neck and many many times she comes to my lips for kisses. We also play peebaboo blankie on my bed so she can "stretch her legs". I keep my face level with the bed and she will come and kiss me on the lips.

I believe all animals are capable of feeling love, affection, fear and sadness and can form a bond with humans.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by squatsnstilettos

I know my BP loves me. Part of it is my maternal instincts. You know when someone (animal or human) is projecting love.

Secondly, my Seshat is incredibly affectionate and adores being held. She bursts to life. When she is on me she constantly kissing me, either on the cheek, ears (she loves my ears for some reason), neck and many many times she comes to my lips for kisses. We also play peebaboo blankie on my bed so she can "stretch her legs". I keep my face level with the bed and she will come and kiss me on the lips.

I believe all animals are capable of feeling love, affection, fear and sadness and can form a bond with humans.

---

Correct me if I'm wrong, but when they lick(kiss) you, that is how they smell things. I wouldn't necessarily say that is a love response, but more of a curiosity and being comfortable with you. Still a good thing! But hey, I'm still a bit of a newbie so don't take my word for it lol I'm just going off what other (experienced) peeps have said on here. Sounds like a sweet snake, reminds me of my own who also gives many "kisses."


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

if you feel that snakes are so awful and stupid maybe you don't have any business on this site let alone owning any snakes. lol. breeders that think like you produce messed up snakes, and that's what truly is sad. if people feel as though their snake loves them, then that's great for them. because the people that have that mindset are the people that are giving their snakes the BEST care.

yeah my snakes love me. case closed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by xyzpdq75

I feel like i can be unbiased as i haven't had a snake before, I've got a question for this thread lol.

do any of your snakes tolerate or even seem to want to be out around you, but when a approached by another (Experienced handler, not talking about toddlers or anything) gets defensive, hides, or even strikes at them if they try to pick them up?

---

Yes! I've been told that even when I let another person hold my friendliest one, she always made her way towards me. My boa will hiss at anyone or anything she's unfamiliar with if they bother her in her enclosure, but she calms down as soon as she recognizes me. My other two are just hateful little hermits though.
I wouldn't say they are affectionate or that they bond with people, but mine do learn to recognize, trust, and tolerate me and that's good enough for me.

they have very few ways to communicate their internal world with the external world. We have very little insight into the snake's internal world, because our biology is so much different from theirs. Unfortunately snakes are a black box, that we cannot pear into. Those people who say that snakes are the reptile equivalent of feeding robots with no emotions, do not have any evidence to back this assertion up. On the other hand, those of us who claim that snakes do have emotions and bond with us may be misinterpreting the very few clues snakes can give us.

I offer the following as evidence. Those who have kept many snakes of many different species will notice that individual snakes seem to have personalities. Some are inquisitive and other secretive. Some are adventurous and others stay in their cage even if the door is open. Some snakes will leave perfect husbandry conditions and venture out into an environment that is not correct for them, and spend time with the humans who share their homes.

Anyone who has ever dealt with a Retic knows that they have favorite people. The can be very picky about who they tolerate, who they like and who they hate. I have heard a Retic make awful growling sounds when a disliked lab attendant walked by his cage, but he scarcely made a sound or movement when I walked by. I could reach in and clean the cage whenever, but if Tina put her arm in she was going to get tagged. She hated the snake, and he hated her.

My BCI loves to explore. If I leave the lid off of his cage, he will be out in a few minutes. He frequently sits with me when I am on the computer. He has an entire room, but he stays near me. Usually on the desk, or curled around the back of the wooden chair next to me. My Balls Python will never leave her cage by choice. My BRB is kind of in the middle. My Corn snake is a ball of energy for a snake. She has a strange habit of hanging upside down frown the lid of her cage. There is no real reason for her to do this. I have never seen another snake do this, but apparently she enjoys being upside down. She may spend twenty or thirty minutes in this position before returning to her hiding spot.

With all the variety of behaviors and temperaments, I think there must be something going on in the heads of these cryptic animals. I do not believe that they are simply robots that eat and breathe and poop following some ancient program. Of course I cannot know if they experience love the way we do, probably not, but I am sure they have a far more complicated mental life than many people give them credit for.

As an aside, decades ago when I was being trained as a Biologist, I learned that sharks were robotic eating machines of the deep. Now research seems to indicate that they are mentally sophisticated, curious, trainable, and even intelligent. These animals are far more ancient than snakes, and the anatomy of their brains relatively simple. The more I spend time with the animals of the world, the more I suspect that the scientific tendency to deny the emotional lives of animals is wrong.

I suspect that even ancient lineages with anatomically simple brains, are far more sophisticated than we give them credit for.

David

IMO i personally believe a snake and its owner can bond and the snake can grow to love you.

Heh, I got a new story for this. My little girl is in blue. She has never been grumpy while in blue, so I hold her for a bit and we watch Youtube snake videos :D Last night we were doing this usual, and she had wrapped around my hands and was apparently asleep. I stroked her side and she woke up, turned my way, touched her nose to mine, gave a few tongue flicks, turned back around, and went back to sleep. I know it was probably wondering what touched her, but seemed like "Mom, are you still there? Oh, OK, good... zzzzzzzzzzz"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by anicatgirl

heh, i got a new story for this. My little girl is in blue. She has never been grumpy while in blue, so i hold her for a bit and we watch youtube snake videos :d last night we were doing this usual, and she had wrapped around my hands and was apparently asleep. I stroked her side and she woke up, turned my way, touched her nose to mine, gave a few tongue flicks, turned back around, and went back to sleep. I know it was probably wondering what touched her, but seemed like "mom, are you still there? Oh, ok, good... Zzzzzzzzzzz"

---

Love! :D

I don't think a snake will love you. But you can bond and it will see you as a food source. They just don't love us back like we love them. They go by instinct. Loving is not an insyinct for them.

Ah, the great non-debate.

My mother rescued a snake and the snake would alwayse search her out if other people were holding him he would stretch his neck out and look for her and as soon as he found her he would immediately try and get to her.

Not sure if it was that she was the food source in his life or what it was that made him want to be near her.

Sent from my SCH-I545 using Tapatalk

Wow this thread has been going on forever. I couldn't say for sure if my snakes love me or are even capable of doing so. But I do know that they are comfortable and tolerant enough with me to relax and endure me showing affection to them. That's the great thing about being a human I guess, that whole unconditional love thing, am I right?

You are right Task. :)

Yeah, I think that we require the love of something but snakes don't/can't love, they just are comfortable with you, your scent and mannerisms. I feel bad when I accidentally bump mine into something or touch them when they aren't expecting it - I'm more worried about hurting my snakes than my kids (when they were younger).

(Can't remember whether I posted here before LOL)

I appreciate that they gradually learn to feel comfortable with you/your scent/mannerisms/handling though, because they're never harmed when you're with them. :rolleyes: It shows that they DO learn, and that's enough for me.

I don't believe snakes have emotions, just instincts, but saying that isn't comfort or seeking what makes us seek comfort and a stress free enviornment something all living things do. So even though snakes really have no emotions nor can they love, they do seek what makes them feel secure. I think that if lying in warm arms makes any creature feel secure its not love just the abscence of stress and the feeling of safety. So even emotionless creatures seek safety and comfort no matter where it comes from. its instinctual.

well

if we ignore fact and just for fun
in my case i know my snake hate me
my het genetic stripe retic always more than happy to bite me, in every chances lol

I like to pretend that Valentine loves me...hard to say...she does try to come out if I disturb her cage at any time. When I open the lid of her cage and stick my hand in she slithers right up on it. She may just use me as a mode of transportation to the outside world lol She definitely doesn't hate me. No bites or strikes as of yet but she's a social butterfly.

I think a snake can recognize a individual based on smell and vibrations . I think they can be partial to someone based on that . I don't however think a snake can feel any type of " love or affection " for a human .

I know this thread is super long and years old, but I just happened to stumble on it.

It seems there are a few people with a "definite" thought on either side of the argument, and many who say we just don't know enough to declare either way.

Recently, it was discovered that rattlesnakes have "friends" or individulas that they choose to spend more time with:

http://gradworks.umi.com/15/30/1530406.html

This would imply a social aspect to that particular species and perhaps even an "emotional" side.

Does anyone else have any scientific papers or know of actual research gone into the argument either way?

I'd be very interested in more scientific evidence rather than most of the antiodtal arguments provided here.

Also, I noticed quite a number of posters listing that a statment they make is a "scientific fact" without providing any sort of link to evidence. If something is indeed a fact, provide the proof! Google scholar is your friend. You can't just claim something as "fact" and expect your argument to be convincing to anyone logical without evidence of such. This goes for many arguments in life.

I don't think snakes are capable of loving as we are, but i do believe that they are smart enough to tell the difference between human and food. Or rather a non threat and prey.

There seems to be a lot of talk about how snakes are capable of love at all, and i wouldn't be so sure to jump to that conclusion. We used to think no animals where capable of love. Maybe they don't love as we do and don't express it as we do, but we can not ignore the fact that reptiles have the same hormones that we havem which are related to that "love" feeling
Oxytocin and Vasoporessi. There are studies that suggest that these emotion hormones emerged between the lineage of Amphibians and Reptiles.

I am not siding with anyone, but i just think it's silly to pick a side at all because in the end i think we just don't know enough to be able to say with 100% certainty that snakes are either capable of love or aren't

i know my snake "loves" me :P; let me elaborate. There are primarily 2 people that handle my snake, myself and my 4 year old son. My son is learning about gentle handling but he's still 4 and can be a bit... cavalier. When i hand the snake to him the snake immediately retreats to me, or if he's allowing my son to handle him but the handling gets to be a little too much (mind you, all this occurs under very close supervision) he sort of swings his head around until he sees/smells me, and make a B-line. I realize there is no affection as we understand it, but i do belive that he recognizes me as a source of safety and/or refuge when he's stressed and i think that's about as "loving" as a snake can really be.

To me, I think it's really ridiculous when people think that their snake loves them. Your snake isn't a dog or even a cat, he isn't capable of loving you or showing you affection. One person once told me that her snake loves her because he flicks his tongue at her lol:rofl: She also told me that a snake flickering his tongue is the equivalent of a dog wagging his tail, I laughed for days lmao

I know that to Kaa, I am merely a huge creature that brings him a yummy rat pup every week and removes his stinky poos.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PythonBabes

One person once told me that her snake loves her because he flicks his tongue at her lol:rofl: She also told me that a snake flickering his tongue is the equivalent of a dog wagging his tail, I laughed for days lmao

---

lol

Love is one of those emotions that we all recognize, but we can't pin an exact definition on it. Try it once when you're in a group of friends. :) A feeling of safety in someone's presence might be counted as part of love, who knows? Do my bps love me like my collie does? No way, but there seems to be a connection between Brickle and me. He sticks his head out of his hide to look at me and likes to be held. Bubbles, on the other hand, wants nothing to do with me and likes to be left alone.

I know that my snake does not "love" anything in the human sense of the word. Is he comfortable/unafraid when held, yes. Does he willingly come out of the hide and crawl up my arm when offered, yes. Is he probably more comfortable when I remove his mess from his cage, yes. But does he have the cerebral development to love me, nope.

Will I still use the wrong terminology when describing things he "likes", probably :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by PythonBabes

To me, I think it's really ridiculous when people think that their snake loves them. Your snake isn't a dog or even a cat, he isn't capable of loving you or showing you affection. One person once told me that her snake loves her because he flicks his tongue at her lol:rofl: She also told me that a snake flickering his tongue is the equivalent of a dog wagging his tail, I laughed for days lmao

I know that to Kaa, I am merely a huge creature that brings him a yummy rat pup every week and removes his stinky poos.

---

lol this reminded me of this lady that told me that she carriers every new baby snake she buys in a sock with her so it can get comfortable and learn to love her. I can't imagine how stressful that all is to a snake.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by butterballpython

Love is one of those emotions that we all recognize, but we can't pin an exact definition on it. Try it once when you're in a group of friends. :) A feeling of safety in someone's presence might be counted as part of love, who knows? Do my bps love me like my collie does? No way, but there seems to be a connection between Brickle and me. He sticks his head out of his hide to look at me and likes to be held. Bubbles, on the other hand, wants nothing to do with me and likes to be left alone.

---

Actually the Greeks figured it out, courtesy of Wikipedia;

The Greek language distinguishes at least four different ways as to how the word love is used. Ancient Greek has four distinct words for love: agápe, éros, philía, and storgē. However, as with other languages, it has been historically difficult to separate the meanings of these words when used outside of their respective contexts. Nonetheless, the senses in which these words were generally used are as follows:

Agápe (ἀγάπη agápē[1]) means "love: esp. charity; the love of God for man and of man for God."[2] Agape is used in ancient texts to denote feelings for one's children and the feelings for a spouse, and it was also used to refer to a love feast.[3] Agape is used by Christians to express the unconditional love of God for his children.[4] This type of love was further explained by Thomas Aquinas as "to will the good of another."[5]
Éros (ἔρως érōs) means "love, mostly of the sexual passion."[6] The Modern Greek word "erotas" means "intimate love." Plato refined his own definition: Although eros is initially felt for a person, with contemplation it becomes an appreciation of the beauty within that person, or even becomes appreciation of beauty itself. Plato does not talk of physical attraction as a necessary part of love, hence the use of the word platonic to mean, "without physical attraction." In the Symposium, the most famous ancient work on the subject, Plato has Socrates argue that eros helps the soul recall knowledge of beauty, and contributes to an understanding of spiritual truth, the ideal "Form" of youthful beauty that leads us humans to feel erotic desire – thus suggesting that even that sensually based love aspires to the non-corporeal, spiritual plane of existence; that is, finding its truth, just like finding any truth, leads to transcendence.[7] Lovers and philosophers are all inspired to seek truth through the means of eros.
Philia (φιλία philía) means "affectionate regard, friendship," usually "between equals."[8] It is a dispassionate virtuous love, a concept developed by Aristotle.[9] In his best-known work on ethics, Nicomachean Ethics, philia is expressed variously as loyalty to friends (specifically, "brotherly love"), family, and community, and requires virtue, equality, and familiarity. Furthermore, in the same text philos denotes a general type of love, used for love between family, between friends, a desire or enjoyment of an activity, as well as between lovers.
Storge (στοργή storgē) means "love, affection" and "especially of parents and children"[10] It's the common or natural empathy, like that felt by parents for offspring.[11] Rarely used in ancient works, and then almost exclusively as a descriptor of relationships within the family. It is also known to express mere acceptance or putting up with situations, as in "loving" the tyrant. This is also used when referencing the love for ones country or a favorite sports team.

I think that people who buy snakes as a "cool thing to look at" might think that they don't have emotions like "love". I've gotten my snakes when they were at a very young age, and they adore me. I've owned 5, and I currently have 2. I have trained the first 3 to be gentle and kind and they were adopted to families with a disabled or medically challenged child. I make sure the snakes visit at least 3 times before I let them go, and I instruct the families how to care for them. I've even gone shopping for supplies with them.
Right now I have two boys and I can't let them go. They both love to be held, and they both go straight for my neck and my face. My pale royal enjoys it when I kiss him on his head! I think that all animals have emotions.
Mikey and Harvey are the perfect examples!

I think my male bp "Ra" enjoys my handling and care. I can lay my hand in his enclosure and he will come out and crawl up my arm...
My female bp "Kali-ma" could care less and doesn't explore or enjoy being out like Ra...she could care less until she gets transferred to her feeding tank. Then she turns into a monster of rat fuzzy destruction lol
I would say yes that snakes can show some type of emotion...most animals with a heartbeat can!

Can't be much different than shoved in a tub without effective handling for years until its time to breed like a robot lol