How Low?

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Originally Posted by Kesosip

Im not trying to sound rude but no breeder is going to breed just for the love of snakes, or the prices of there product would'nt be so high Money makes the world go round, I really wish people would stop thinking that this isnt so, just because they feel guilty about there greed. If you dont agree with me try living for 30 days with no money and see.

any how its also supply and demand BP morphs are getting ridiculess there are just so many different ones coming out each year, of course the new morphs are going to hold a high value untill the market is flooded with them. prices are going to go down regardless.

I guess though that only the wealthy can care for a lesser platnum since there demands are so much higher then a normal ball python.

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I am going to have to disagree with you. I plan on breeding, but I don't expect to make a living off it. I will be completely happy if I can have a self sustaining hobby. Heck, I would be a bit disapointed if I never sold one, but I did get into bps because I love them. This is something that really sustains me more as a person, than financially. I don't know what you are talking about with this greed thing? :confuzd: It's also slightly offensive, with that broad generalizations.

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

I am going to have to disagree with you. I plan on breeding, but I don't expect to make a living off it. I will be completely happy if I can have a self sustaining hobby. Heck, I would be a bit disapointed if I never sold one, but I did get into bps because I love them. This is something that really sustains me more as a person, than financially. I don't know what you are talking about with this greed thing? :confuzd: It's also slightly offensive, with that broad generalizations.

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I agree with tigerlilly. i Dont plan on making money, just funding a habit. OMG how dare i invest money made from pastels into spiders, and then bumbles into my love of all things recessive + clown. The only way for me to get a lesser is to breed up to it. And yet im greedy?

Hmmm I guess Christie and I and a lot of others are very misguided then since all we are doing is for the love the snakes right now. Some of us haven't seen an egg pip, we are investing our time and our hard earned money with no assurance of a financial return ever. That's about love and committment unless I'm sadly mistaken.

Sure when a breeder gets enough snakes to have to have employees and so forth, you better also be a damn fine businessperson or you're sunk but sorry I just don't buy the "greed" terminology. Even before you're big enough to need staff, if you don't mind your pennies well, you won't have enough to support your collection properly...that's not about greed...that's about common sense.

It's not greedy to be a smart businessperson. It is greedy to dump morphs on a market for a short term gain. It is greedy to love the money more than the snakes so that you push them to breed when they aren't in top form or big enough. I know breeders that have snakes that don't produce every year and they don't push or expect them too. If they were "greedy" they wouldn't care.

Most breeders aren't the puppy mill type. They mind their bottom line and I'm glad they do or they wouldn't be around to sell me and you top notch snakes each year, but they also obviously love these snakes. Ask Kara, Kevin, Ralph, Adam, Joe Compel, Tracey and Dave over at VPI, etc. if they've lost that sense of wonder when an egg pips....I would bet my last snake buying dollar they haven't. Sorry but I don't call that greed.

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Originally Posted by shhhli

well the rate you want it to happen means that those breeders you appreciate getting stuck in the end.
.02$

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Ooohhhhhhhhh....so I'm hosing the breeders now...I thought it was MKR???

I have one Pastel male that I bought for $350...how am I sticking it to the breeders???

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Originally Posted by sho220

I also find it interesting how a lot of breeders go on and on about what a great investment ball's are, and how anyone can get in on it and recoup their initial investment many, many, many times over...it's better than the stock market, it's a sure thing, it's money in the bank, this is just the beginning, blah blah blah...

Come on $350 SPIDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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That is sticking it to the breeders you claim to appreciate. Maybe they'll remember that when you go to them hoping to get a deal.

Ooohhhhhhhhh....so I'm hosing the breeders now...I thought it was MKR???

I have one Pastel male that I bought for $350...how am I sticking it to the breeders???

How is that rational thought? I'm saying you want spiders to be 350. okay. well last time i checked a good one was in the 3k range. You're wanting the prices to go down, thusly SOMETHING has happened to spiders and its most likely not to the 'honest' breeder's benefit.
Where did the pastel come in? When did i say what you bought now had anything to do with what you're wanting of these high end morphs?
Dont twist my words.

annnd i agree with elevatethis.

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Originally Posted by elevatethis

That is sticking it to the breeders you claim to appreciate. Maybe they'll remember that when you go to them hoping to get a deal.

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How??? They're going to sell them for what they're valued at...I'm simply saying that for an animal I don't intend to turn into an investment, I'm only willing to pay so much. If I wait for the price to go down, I'm sticking it to the breeder?

And don't worry, I won't go to breeders looking to get a deal...if it's priced too high, I'll live without it...

This whole topic boils down to morals and ethics. Unfortunately the market can't forsee things like this because they are unique from person to person. Business is business whether it be unethical or not, its just harder for those people who have morals and ethics to accept these behaviors as acceptable.

I agree with those that want to breed for the love of the snakes. I started to think long term but events like this one threw a huge monkey wrench into the picture. I think the only way to combat unethical business practices is through quality. Quality alone is the one thing that sets apart one mojave priced at 800 dollars and one priced at 1500. And along with quality comes the business relationship encountered during the process which will hopefully retain customers. An educated consumer will seek out the quality, and an educated consumer will most likely have better success in his own endeavours.

I think things will come full circle in due time. Take Enron for example...they were the prime example of success, unethical practices, and eventually downfall. Where is Kenny Lay now? Died from a heart attack, probably from all the stress he encountered as a result of his negligence. I'm putting my money on karma...its all you can really do, no matter what you can't stop people from living or doing what they want whether it be blatently wrong or not. Time can be the only judge, and how we deal with the events that arise is what determines who will sink or swim.

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Originally Posted by shhhli

Ooohhhhhhhhh....so I'm hosing the breeders now...I thought it was MKR???

I have one Pastel male that I bought for $350...how am I sticking it to the breeders???

How is that rational thought? I'm saying you want spiders to be 350. okay. well last time i checked a good one was in the 3k range. You're wanting the prices to go down, thusly SOMETHING has happened to spiders and its most likely not to the 'honest' breeder's benefit.
Where did the pastel come in? When did i say what you bought now had anything to do with what you're wanting of these high end morphs?
Dont twist my words.

annnd i agree with elevatethis.

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Ok...I was exaggerating...350 is a little low...but 3 grand is way high...and yes, something has happened to Spiders...everyone is breeding them...thus causing the supply to exceed demand, and the price to go down. I would consider a spider a very common morph, not a "high end" morph.

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Originally Posted by sho220

...everyone is breeding them...thus causing the supply to exceed demand, and the price to go down. I would consider a spider a very common morph, not a "high end" morph.

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This is exactly what happens with any market, but the prices complained about in the original post do not follow the rules of supply and demand. It is just someone lowering their prices to an extreem level in order to make a very fast sell. If they do that on a regular basis, it will end up hurting the quality breeders because people will go for the lowest price first and if they see a price 10 times what another is, they will hold out for the lower priced snake to become available again.