Ethics of Hybrids

Ok, maybe I worded that wrong.

I meant why mess up a species bloodline by mixing another species with it.

People, THIS IS MY OPINION!! Even if my reasons aren't the best reasons, I'm sticking by them. You can negetive rep me, flame me, whatever, I am not changing my opinion.

To avoid any problems, I'm done with this thread ;)

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Originally Posted by _BoidFinatic_

Why intervene with the natural breeding habits of the specimens? If their current ranges don't overlap, then it obviously wouldn't occur naturally. Would these animals serve a purpose in their ecosystem the way they are? In the case of regius x brongersmai, how is the nature of one snake compatible with the other? Are the ball's lungs meant to handle high humidity ranges? A majority of balls occur in the western deserts of Africa where humidity doesn't exceed semi-arid levels. Other than this example, there may be numerous complications with hybridizing two unlike species.

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Where to start! First with the nit-picky things. Ghana, Togo and Benin are not deserts! Semi-arid may describe the dry season, but these are lush beautiful countries. While they are certainly not the humid jungles of Borneo, etc. don't over-exaggerate :)

Now with reference to "ball's lungs" we all must remember that genes are NOT blueprints. This means you can't, for example, insert "the genes for an elephant's trunk" into a giraffe and get a giraffe with a trunk. There -are- no genes for trunks. What you CAN do with genes is chemistry, since DNA codes for chemicals. As well, the genetic code does not, and cannot, specify the nature and position of every capillary in the body or every neuron in the brain. Hybrids are nothing more than the combination of two compatible genetic codes, and in these specific cases, they are human-facilitated combinations.

I've noticed that people who speak against creating hybrids talk of keeping lines pure, of leaving things the way nature (read God) intended. Would those who speak of geographical isolation have prevented the voyages of discovery so that Europeans could not breed with Native Americans? Be careful now, consider why you believe what you believe. Is it ok because the different "type localities" of all Humans aren't different species? Where do you draw your ethical line, because I for one would really love to understand your position! I have to ask: why do those of you anti-hybridists insist that the genetic code is "sacred" or "taboo"? It is a chemical process and nothing more. For that matter -we- are chemical processes and nothing more. If you deny yourself useful information simply because it reminds you uncomfortably of your mortality, you have uselessly and pointlessly crippled yourself.

Since Shaun has shared his feelings and left the ethical discussion I guess it is pointless to mention there is a difference between opinions and ethics. To a broader audience though, the ethical question remains is it "good" or "right" to create/facilitate hybrids? To be a bit of a devil's advocate I'll ask in a broader sense is it ethically sound to keep snakes at all? While some might volunteer that captive breeding programs benefit the species, what of keeping snakes solely as pets with no view to breed?

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Originally Posted by bpkid

Ok, maybe I worded that wrong.

I meant why mess up a species bloodline by mixing another species with it.

People, THIS IS MY OPINION!! Even if my reasons aren't the best reasons, I'm sticking by them. You can negetive rep me, flame me, whatever, I am not changing my opinion.

To avoid any problems, I'm done with this thread ;)

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I am not trying to flame or negative rep you! Honestly, I don't know how I feel about the hybrid issue. I guess when the day comes that I have X thousands of dollars to drop on one (probably will never happen), I will have to address the issue. I just don't care honestly, to each his own!

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Originally Posted by Dougie

I just don't care honestly, to each his own!

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So Dougie are you a moral relativist or a moral pluralist?

Not to be a stickler, but either way you are setting yourself up to support the Holocaust, Apartheid, and slavery to name but a few. You can't be flippant in these discussions :)

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Originally Posted by Dougie

I am not trying to flame or negative rep you! Honestly, I don't know how I feel about the hybrid issue. I guess when the day comes that I have X thousands of dollars to drop on one (probably will never happen), I will have to address the issue. I just don't care honestly, to each his own!

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Originally Posted by Dread

So Dougie are you a moral relativist or a moral pluralist?

Not to be a stickler, but either way you are setting yourself up to support the Holocaust, Apartheid, and slavery to name but a few. You can't be flippant in these discussions :)

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Wow, you have him jumping from a neutral standpoint on hybrids to supporting genocide?!?!? WOW!! :O Impressive. ;) (sorry just couldn't keep my mouth shut... or fingers still?) :D

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Originally Posted by Dread

So Dougie are you a moral relativist or a moral pluralist?

Not to be a stickler, but either way you are setting yourself up to support the Holocaust, Apartheid, and slavery to name but a few. You can't be flippant in these discussions :)

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I can be flippant, common sense would say that my statement excludes war crimes and the such, especially since my statement is about a certain topic. If it was a broad range discussion on morality your statement would make sense, however since it was said in reference to a specific topic you are stretching pretty far.

Awww, you're missing the fun of having an ethical debate! No parrying and jousting back and forth here.

There is a difference between supporting, and setting yourself up to support. And to be fair, you cannot make an ethical decision without a moral system. If you make any decisions from a moral relativist perspective, you will eventually have to concede (as you did here) that there are limits. So in conclusion, making an ethical decision from as a relativist is imperfect and therefore incorrect.

So if apathy didn't taint your moral life, there should be a quest to find fulfillment in a complete ethical system to lead your life by, not just guide opinions on snake hybrids. Home grown "common sense" seems to pretty prevalent these days, unfortunately there is nothing common about it!

Oh, I have a complete ethical system to live by, I never tried to say that it was impossibly for it all to be limitless, I totally agree. However, in regards to the ethics of hybridizing species, at the moment it has no direct affect on me so I just don't care. If common sense were common, how much fun would it be to have such discussions!

my view is this; i am completely fine with hybrid animals and i think they are sometimes gorgeous and very fascinating. but, i do draw the line somewhere.

what i dont understand is why someone would hybridize say red and yellow ackies. red and yellow ackie hybrids basically look like reddish yellows or yelowish reds and they dont even look fascinating like blood x balls or angolan balls.

now, the thing with ackies is people are doing this commony now and its hard to find pure reds anymore. if you go thekingsnake classifieds (or any reptile classifieds) you'll see animals advertised as red ackies but they are just yellows or hybrids. now whether people know what they are or not doesnt matter too me. i just dont wont there to be no more pure red ackies in the US since they can no longer be imported from Australia.

same with other species that look a lot alike. i just dont get it.

I personally do not care whether someone chooses to create a hybrid, in the strict definition of species that I subscribe to, a hybrid is incapable of reproducing. Mules are quite useful sometimes.



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