TOFFEE Ball PROVEN

Wow we might all have to eat our words. Now we just need the time to fly by so we can see his snakes after a few sheds!!! :gj:

Thanks Craig for your updates and sharing your story. Paul everyone knows I hope you continue to send pictures!!!! Im really glad this story was cleared:taz:.

Good on ya paul

Like I said before hope you proved people wrong.

Good luck with this fantastic project .

Also congrats to craig for making it all possible!

James

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Originally Posted by patrick long

maybe the original toffee was bred to an albino, and you got two het albino babies lol

im not trying to be the stick in the mud, but do you have pictures of other toffee babies?

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there are no other toffee babies

Yep, Ive read thru all 14 pages. Still don't believe they are anything more then normal albinos. There is nothing out of the ordinary in regards to their normal albino eyes, and their normal patterns and colors.

I know colors can change... but I don't see how the eyes could possibly change from normal albino eyes to the Toffee eyes. I will definitely keep up with this, and if the color change ever happens, I will be a believer. But until then, they are just plain old albinos.

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Yep, Ive read thru all 14 pages. Still don't believe they are anything more then normal albinos. There is nothing out of the ordinary in regards to their normal albino eyes, and their normal patterns and colors.

I know colors can change... but I don't see how the eyes could possibly change from normal albino eyes to the Toffee eyes. I will definitely keep up with this, and if the color change ever happens, I will be a believer. But until then, they are just plain old albinos.

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I would admit that photo looks like an Albino Mike. I don't have an opinion about eye color change? Craig must have been pretty sure about the Toffee's genetics to give that kind of 100% money-back promise. I believe Craig believed in the markers he was seeing in ALL the founding Toffee offspring.

I picked up on the markers from the 07 Het pictures on Craig's website a couple of years ago. I also know someone who has a Het Toffee male and markers are consistent when bred to normals -- 50% of offspring have them.

I have a recessive project I have been working with the last 2 years/holding back lots of girls -- I EXPECT to prove it this spring. ALL of the 45+ hatchlings have the same 5 subtle markers and "LOOK" about them -- regardless of the light/dark color of normal girl that produced them. Can 45 hatchlings all be wrong????

Recessive Hets can display markers if you have entire clutches/mult. babies to compare.

Colors CAN change quickly. :)

The girl on the right is 250 grams in this photo and was the same color as the girl in the middle (after first shed) right after her first shed. The older girl has shed twice since this photo and has colored-up even more. :cool:

https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...e_9_636984.jpg
https://ball-pythons.net/gallery/fil...m_update_1.jpg

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Yep, Ive read thru all 14 pages. Still don't believe they are anything more then normal albinos. There is nothing out of the ordinary in regards to their normal albino eyes, and their normal patterns and colors.

I know colors can change... but I don't see how the eyes could possibly change from normal albino eyes to the Toffee eyes. I will definitely keep up with this, and if the color change ever happens, I will be a believer. But until then, they are just plain old albinos.

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I see where you could think it's an Albino, but c'mon if Pete Kahl is backing this then I don't know how you could say "No". I know the Toffees and Candies have yet to be bred together to prove compatibility but still we're not talking about Amateurs making random guesses here.

Food for thought: I wonder if the Candy/Toffee are compatible with "regular" albinos. See my idea comes from Retics. Retics have 3 forms of Albino; White Phase, Lavender, and Purple, but they're all compatible. I understand that Lavender Albino and Regular Albinos are not compatible but they look very different as hatchlings and see as how Toffees/Candies apparently don't then maybe they can be reproduced using just Albinos.

Of course it's just a Theory with no evidence to really back it up, but I guess we'll know when someone eventually breeds Toffee/Candy to Albino :).

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Originally Posted by Mike Cavanaugh

Still don't believe they are anything more then normal albinos.

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In no time at all, you'll believe differently. I promise. :gj:

-adam

I believed it all along. I can't wait to see what they turn out like.:rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by Adam_Wysocki

In no time at all, you'll believe differently. I promise. :gj:

-adam

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I sure hope so! If that happens, I WANT ONE!!!