I think my snake loves me

Regardless of other peoples opinions, I think Ball Pythons have their own personality and grow special bonds with their owners.:)

I think they very much "Tolerate us" as a food source and bigger foe so they act accordingly.:D

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Originally Posted by miki

Regardless of other peoples opinions, I think Ball Pythons have their own personality and grow special bonds with their owners.:)

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Regardless of what you think of what has been posted, the facts are just that - facts. You are entitled to your own opinions, but not your own facts.

LMAO!!


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Not that I'm saying I think my snake "loves" me, but I do know he tolerates me. And those of you that keep saying "facts are facts". How many times have "facts" turned out to be false in history? For instance... Doctors used to think that it was a "fact" that cigarettes were okay for you, obviously that's a big negative.

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Originally Posted by Huntz362

And those of you that keep saying "facts are facts". How many times have "facts" turned out to be false in history? For instance.

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Good point, in primitive times "gods" were responsible for all kinds of things we know now not to be true.

...... I forgot slim isn't here to back me up on this :(

I don't know about yalls snakes but I recieved valentines cards from two of mine. So you decide :)

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Nervous as youngsters. More laid back as adults. That's all I have ever noticed.

Isn't Love relative? I mean what is it really? An emotion? What drives us to love? I don't mean to get all bogged down in heavy thought here, just saying, we don't know everything about snakes or any other creature. Just because their biology doesn't compare to ours doesn't mean they don't feel. Who knows what they feel. I think it's important to decide what connection you have with your pet and go with it. If you think your snake loves you then enjoy it. Why not? Hell my bp showed me more affection then some of the relationships I've been in. lol

Watt is love? Baby don't Hertz me, don't Hertz me. No Morse.

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If someone personifies there BP let them. A gentle disposition while being handled can be perceived as affection from the owner and that shouldn't be a problem. I believe that every keeper should try to understand the mentality of there snakes whether it be dictated by species or an individual within a species. I think we can all agree that some snakes have good attitudes and some have absolutely bad attitudes and tendencies. Personally I don't feel any snakes are apt to affectionate behavior but he may have a snake with a good disposition, that doesn't mind being held and likes to be close to said keeper for warmth. Let him perceive it as whatever he wants. Perceptions not reality but if personifying said pet snake enriches the keepers hobby why not? Someone made millions of dollars off of the pet rock idea for F&@! Sake. :)

My baby loves me!

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Originally Posted by peterscot423

:snake:The snakes have no mind. They can bite you if any irritation it's faced.

http://www.localvetsearch.com

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Your dog at home can do the same. Spammer

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Holy old thread, Batman! lol

:))

Wasn't there a saying that went, "it's not what loves you.. it's what you love?" I love my snakes.. so, I guess that there is valid love goin' on around here. lol

Honestly it comes down to one's spiritual opinion on the concept of love. I know my snake doesn't love me, but I know he is more receptive to me than he is to other people because he recognizes my scent and associates it with gentle handling and protection. If I hand him off to a friend, he is much more cautious and reserved. He trusts me not to hurt him and knows my handling technique. Is that love? Sure, if that's the word you use to describe such connections.

Spirituality and semantics.

for the people who automatically shut off the idea, you will never experience it because you have already shut the idea out of your mind. facts aren't facts and the only thing I know, is that I know nothing (Aristotle). don't jump to conclusions based on your human perception. open your minds.

08/23/2006

Lets move on.

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

08/23/2006

Lets move on.

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Its been steadily ongoing since then... Why so insistant to kill a thread that doesn't need to be killed?

I think this is a good conversation..

So, ok, my snake may not love me in the sense that my cat would love me. But I think there is an understanding that he may have. He knows I don't want to hurt him; he doesn't try to escape when I handle him, he doesn't hiss or bite, and he curls up and falls asleep often when hes laying on my stomach or against my ribs. Maybe it's just conditioning and lots of time being handled, but he does't react aggressively towards people. Like I said, it may not be love or any special attachment, but I think that for an essentially wild animal he shows a lot of tolerance for human interaction. Besides, I adore him so I delude myself into thinking he feels the same. ;)

I found this intersting. IMO snakes dont feel love or anything like that. However I know for a fact that snakes tend to be "comfortable" around us. Its about building trust. Today for instance I went to go handle one of my balls. All I had to do was open the enclosure and he came right out, slithered up my stomach and into my arms. This has only happened 2 times before and I thought it was really something. Now this happened infront of my gf and she thought that the snake "loved" me. They feel physical pain and they operate strictly on instinct. We are the ones that feel affection for them but not vise versa.

Although I think snakes are definitely independent by nature, there's no way we will ever know they have emotions simply because they lack the muscle and tissue to express them, aside from biting and hissing, of course.
However, I definitely believe even the ball python will learn to recognize people.
For two weeks, my yearling ball didn't eat. I thought it was due to fasting. My second and smaller ball python wasn't as enthusiastic as she usually was either, didn't strike her food at all, and didn't eat until later in the day (or rather, the night) when the (dead)rat was just dumped in the terrarium. I've never had this happen before, however, during these two feedings, my sister and and my cat were in my room. The second week, my larger ball python seemed real interested too, and started off with her hungry python mode, although she failed to grab the rat, lost interest and went back to hiding. This week, I decided to focus on getting them to eat- alone. I don't have much to say, other than both of them became the aggressive eaters I know them to be. Time of day was irrelevant too, because during this third attempt, it was day-time and both pythons managed to, quite enthusiastically, successfully grab and eat the rats they were offered.
I'm quite confident in saying that most, if not all reptiles will at least learn to recognize and trust individual people.

Reptiles do seem to know who their main carer is and will usually head for them if given the option between a few people. My bf keeps boas and all of his ones go straight to him, even if I'm holding them, but the newer ones we got are happier being with me for longer but will still end up smelling him out and heading that way too. It's surprisingly hurtful to be rejected by snakes lol.

As much as I say "oh my snake loves me because [insert reason here]" I do know that they have limited brain capacity and the area of the brain capable of emotion isn't developed in them like in mammals/birds. But it is nice to feel wanted by your pets lol. I think it's just human nature to want to be loved by the lives we take care of on a daily basis.

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Originally Posted by pythonminion

there's no way we will ever know they have emotions simply because they lack the muscle and tissue to express them, aside from biting and hissing, of course.

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They actually lack the part of the brain that processes and deals with emotion. So that's a pretty good indicator that they are not emotional. They are rather primitive in which they are very instinctual simple creatures.


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I like to think my snake loves me but put it this way: he defiantly knows his Mommy (me), everyone tells me that. But that's him smelling.... but when he had a RI he knew who gave him his injections (not me- Brrr I hate needles!) and would try and avoid them if they came in the room when I was holding him etc... He defiantly remembers stuff and whether someone is good with snake/panics whatever. But now I'm rambling so yeah!!

I wish my snake loved me... how cute would it be to see your babies all excited when you handle them!!

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Originally Posted by CaitJaye

So, ok, my snake may not love me in the sense that my cat would love me. But I think there is an understanding that he may have. He knows I don't want to hurt him; he doesn't try to escape when I handle him, he doesn't hiss or bite, and he curls up and falls asleep often when hes laying on my stomach or against my ribs. Maybe it's just conditioning and lots of time being handled, but he does't react aggressively towards people. Like I said, it may not be love or any special attachment, but I think that for an essentially wild animal he shows a lot of tolerance for human interaction. Besides, I adore him so I delude myself into thinking he feels the same. ;)

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When you say he knows you don't want to hurt him how do you gauge that when you can't tell what it is thinking or feeling? Just because something doesn't attack doesn't mean it feels safe.

He never never tries to move away from you while holding it? That would be hard to believe. It moving away from your direction could be taken as it trying to escape.

How do you know he is asleep in your lap? Snakes might not move hen they are asleep or awake. I always wonder how people know when thy are sleeping because I see many a times people mention they know the snake is asleep.

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Originally Posted by satomi325

They actually lack the part of the brain that processes and deals with emotion. So that's a pretty good indicator that they are not emotional. They are rather primitive in which they are very instinctual simple creatures.


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I rather agree with this as I have heard it before. They act from instinct not feelings. But do you have proof of this? I have jut heard people say it and it sounds more realistic but in have never seen actual proof/studies of it.

Considering how we're just recently discovering actual intelligence in snakes' fellow squamates, I actually found this video mildly interesting:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlflGmGG3Vg

I honestly don't like the poll options- I'm willing to bet the answer is somewhere in between. Much like how animals that are naturally and typically antisocial will somehow still recognize their human caretakers- such as hedgehogs, servals, short tailed opossums and blue tongue skinks.
Its also funny how the more snakes that someone has (and therefor the less time they have to observe one particular specimen) the more inclined they are to say they're no more intelligent than a tarantula. Whereas someone who actually spends some time with their snakes, they tend to pick up on all their little quirks. And the snake has more time to "get to know them" too. Anyone ever consider that?

The problem that I see is people just living a fact driven life instead of making your own hypothesis running your own experiment and forming your own conclusion. and theres also an article on here that I think everyone should go and read thats showing that there trying to see if reptiles in genereal have more intelligence than everyone thought. I dont like people who live by just "fact" that requires no abstract thought or imagination. So my conclusion from me being with my snake is I know my snake loves me. It wont act with my roomates or anyone else (who doesnt take care of it) like it acts with me. My snake got use to what I do with it. When I take it out I always put it in a hat or my pocket and when I first got it it didnt want to go in cause obviously it was scared but now it knows if I go into this hat hes gunna put me in his hoodie pocket and its going to be really warm. When i clean her enclosure and put her on the floor and im walking back and forth to the sink, it watches me walk back and forth and if im out of the room itll start slithering out and when im walking back in you can see her following me with her eyes tongue out tasting the air happy as can be and she turns around and comes back in the room.

Heres my last point if it recognizes my smell it recognizes me because I am my smell. And a snake can feel a kiss from vibrations, In the wild in can feel vibrations from a hawk flapping its wings to come eat it.

So my conclusion from my Hypothesis and living the experiment is my snake loves me and its ignorance and being a sheep to not think abstractly or even give it a thought that they might.


Edit: http://ball-pythons.net/forums/showt...ht=coldblooded

Thats the article regardless of your OPINION everyone should read.

wow what a read, very interesting. what i will say is that i believe my snake recognizes me, she's been handled very consistently, 1-2 hours every night for as long as i had her, with the exception of after she eats or when she is shedding. but ill say this. i get the feeling she likes to be handled. it seams she knows as soon as her light clicks off and she hears the clips of her top coming off she slithers right to the top. i usually put my arm in she will get her whole body on my arm and sit motionless until i take her out. so do i think she "loves" Me. probably not lol, does she recognize me? i believe so. does she enjoy being handled and exploring? yes. my .02

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Originally Posted by StaticLowLife

wow what a read, very interesting. what i will say is that i believe my snake recognizes me, she's been handled very consistently, 1-2 hours every night for as long as i had her, with the exception of after she eats or when she is shedding. but ill say this. i get the feeling she likes to be handled. it seams she knows as soon as her light clicks off and she hears the clips of her top coming off she slithers right to the top. i usually put my arm in she will get her whole body on my arm and sit motionless until i take her out. so do i think she "loves" Me. probably not lol, does she recognize me? i believe so. does she enjoy being handled and exploring? yes. my .02

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While mine recognize me, I think they only love me when I show up with rats. ;)

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Originally Posted by bcr229

While mine recognize me, I think they only love me when I show up with rats. ;)

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LOL heard that!

For me if my snake likes me more than its likes you it may not love me in the traditional sense of the word but it loves me as in you dont wanna stick your hand in the tank when shes in shed and me i get away with it.

Three things
1. I read this title and even the person who generated it explained as a poll/thread for your opinion which after reading turned into people bashing other peoples opinion with FACTS. (Can anyone link a thread from this site with at least 25 post where you can voice your opinion and the savior of the fact galaxy doesn't come out swinging) lol.
2. "Its a fact that snakes cant feel emotion cause science has proven it" im pretty sure that science as a way of explanation isnt a new concept and was someones argument in the whole "the earth is flat debate" back in the day.
3. I dont think my snakes love me cause there mostly babies and to me seem to still be figuring things out but anything is possible.



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Originally Posted by MonkeyShuttle

Three things
1. I read this title and even the person who generated it explained as a poll/thread for your opinion which after reading turned into people bashing other peoples opinion with FACTS. (Can anyone link a thread from this site with at least 25 post where you can voice your opinion and the savior of the fact galaxy doesn't come out swinging) lol.
2. "Its a fact that snakes cant feel emotion cause science has proven it" im pretty sure that science as a way of explanation isnt a new concept and was someones argument in the whole "the earth is flat debate" back in the day.
3. I dont think my snakes love me cause there mostly babies and to me seem to still be figuring things out but anything is possible.



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I feel you. I love my snakes and want to gush about them like they're my children but I'm too scared of getting the people who are strictly for breeding, serious, or science-factoids responding or thinking less of me for it. Because apparently owning snakes is all work and no play and you're not allowed to have them as pets or therapy (in my case). That's my derail tidbit

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I don't mind people loving their snakes. I adore my snakes and I find them very relaxing. We have a mutual respect and understanding. I would even go so far as to say we have a relationship. My scalies recognize me and seem to prefer me. However, I don't believe they feel love for me. They are not devoid of all feelings, I just think love is too complex for these simple creatures.

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Originally Posted by HVani

I don't mind people loving their snakes. I adore my snakes and I find them very relaxing. We have a mutual respect and understanding. I would even go so far as to say we have a relationship. My scalies recognize me and seem to prefer me. However, I don't believe they feel love for me. They are not devoid of all feelings, I just think love is too complex for these simple creatures.

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well put sir. repzzz

I LOVE how this thread gets another go-around about every 6 months...

I feel like my snake knows a persons scent and if their a threat or not. My pied comes right onto my hand when I lift up his hide and pet his back. My girlfriend tries to do the same and he ALWAYS balls up or hisses. Even past snakes I owned always squirmed in others hands or just looked uncomfortable.

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Originally Posted by HVani

I don't mind people loving their snakes. I adore my snakes and I find them very relaxing. We have a mutual respect and understanding. I would even go so far as to say we have a relationship. My scalies recognize me and seem to prefer me. However, I don't believe they feel love for me. They are not devoid of all feelings, I just think love is too complex for these simple creatures.

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I can agree with that love is really complex hahaha most humans dont even or barely understand it

It is a proven fact snakes do not have the ability to love. That part of their brain does not exist.. HOWEVER - Snakes do have the ability to LIKE. And I'm sure there is a level to how much they can like something or someone. My snake shows signs of comfortableness around me and acts in a fun and friendly matter with me. My BP Cornelius shows great fondness towards me, and that's enough for me!

Everytime i hear facts and brain in the same sentence i see a preview for a tv show "have scientist finally found the secret to unlocking one of the worlds greatest mysteries... Tune in next week when scientist explore the mysteries of the brain" lol. How many facts have changed over the years


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Originally Posted by Seemingly_Harmless

It is a proven fact snakes do not have the ability to love. That part of their brain does not exist.. HOWEVER - Snakes do have the ability to LIKE. And I'm sure there is a level to how much they can like something or someone. My snake shows signs of comfortableness around me and acts in a fun and friendly matter with me. My BP Cornelius shows great fondness towards me, and that's enough for me!

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This makes sense- you don't particularly need oxytocin interacting with the brain to find comfort or enjoyment in something.

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Originally Posted by pythonminion

This makes sense- you don't particularly need oxytocin interacting with the brain to find comfort or enjoyment in something.

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Exactly. Which is why I believe that even though my snake most-likely doesn't love me, that he is fond of me.

I don't think my snakes love me. I do think my snakes recognize me, perceive me as being of no threat and associate my presence with things like rodents, water, and getting out of their enclosures. They do not all appreciate me equally, but every last one of them behaves differently with me than other members of my household who handle the snakes minimally and never provide food/water/take them out. They're simple animals, yeah, but they are animals and are very definitely capable of learning and forming associations. If they've got a positive association with my presence (and getting things) then it's good enough for me.

If you define love the same way a plant loves sunlight and good soil then I absolutely think my snake loves me ;)

I wouldn't say she loves me as much as say she loves attention. However my RTB doesn't like to roam around when I get her out. She comes right back to you.

I don't know if snakes can love, but I only have to spend 5 minutes with my jcp to know beyond all doubt that they can hate!

As for salmonella, all egg laying species carry it. It's just used as a reptile bogeyman. People let their parrots kiss them all the time without worrying that they may end up with salmonella.

Sure, you could catch salmonella from handling a snake. Or eating an egg mcmuffin. Or eating raw cookie dough. When I consider the risks I take on a daily basis just by getting behind the wheel of my car, it makes me rather unconcerned about the risks of letting my snakes hide in my beard.