Scale-less BP photo!

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Originally Posted by DavidMundy

I think the scaless is amazing and I cant wait to see what it looks like with other genes added on. I'm sure Brian will inform everyone IF there are any health issues with it. He is a great guy and loves the animals he works with.

On a side note though. How did the picture actually leak? It seems to me that Brian was not happy about this at all. I know I would be pretty pissed off as well...whoever did it may of done it with the right intentions but to me it is still stealing and is wrong.

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This is just my opinion on this "leak".
I believe BHB released the photo themselves. This way they can see the public reaction before they do release
photos. They then can address the public accordingly. these guys are not on top of the industry 'cause they're stupid.
Of coarse this is just my thoughts.......

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Originally Posted by snakeman13

This is just my opinion on this "leak".
I believe BHB released the photo themselves. This way they can see the public reaction before they do release
photos. They then can address the public accordingly. these guys are not on top of the industry 'cause they're stupid.
Of coarse this is just my thoughts.......

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I think there's a mole in BHB... :O

BHB is dropping the information out piece by piece.

for example, i heared from different sources that Mike Wilbanks purchased some scaleless heads. then i heared ELSEWHERE that he purchased 3 of them, for like 60000-70000 a piece.

then there was a skype interview a few days ago where Brian did show a scaleless hatchling live in the show. low resolution, laggy skype, but still, he showed it on camera. He also said he got offered 100000 dollars, but will keep them and raise them himself. in the same interview, when they were talking about something completely different, Brian "let it slip" that he recently sold a small group of BPs (he didnt say what exactly) for 210000 dollars.

piece the bits together and you come to a quite substantiated rumour based on like 3 or 4 different sources in different places that Mike Wilbanks purchased 3 scaleless heads for 70000 each and a total of 210000 dollars. and the fully scaleless are not for sale for now.

the leaked pics, who knows. Maybe they were taken as part of the skype interview were he showed them off? Maybe Brian allowed them to leak because he will show the scaleless live to the public at a reptile show?

its kinda smart, we get news about these critters every 2 days or so. a picture there, an interview here, soon a reptile show which will bring tons of pictures. safe to say, belly shots will leak when he maybe lets people hold it and others take out their cellphones.

i am reasonably certain there wont be any belly scales because it leaked just days before he will show them publicly, at which point it will certainly come out. also scaleless snakes with belly scales always have scales around the mouth and on the underside of the head.


anyway, i see no secrecy. i see that stuff gets leaked in a way that the true enthusiasts (like this forum, like us) get to know stuff a few days before the wider public finds out. thats the pattern. we first heared about the scaleless with one initial picture just days before he put the egg cutting into a special snakebytesTV episode. now we have the post-1st-shed pics and some more details days before he drops the bomb and shows them live at a reptile show. and we know scaleless is not for sale, and scaleless heads go for 70000 a piece.

just like with blockbuster movies, its the typical pattern of early announcement, then sneek peek, then trailer, some behind-the-scenes stuff, interviews, a making of, pre-viewings for insiders, and then grand premiere. These leaks imply anything other than secrecy; they are designed to get us hot for the grand premiere. and judging by this thread, its totally working :D

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Originally Posted by Surrealle

So, here's a stupid question.. Do these guys shed?

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We wouldn't know until Brian tells us.

But all scaleless snakes that have been observed do shed. They do not lack a beta-keratin layer. Rather, they have a thin beta-keratin layer that the snake sheds as it grows. The shed does not stretch like regular shed scales.

Interestingly, the scaleless snakes that have been observed has a thicker than normal alpha-keratin layer (skin). Researchers are attributing this to the reason why adult scaleless gopher snakes in the wild are not showing more damage/injury than their scaled counterparts.

More than anything, i just wanna...i just feel it :D

sent from my incubator

just found this on facebook, a post from BHB Reptiles linking the image that started this thread:

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I'm happy to conform that the "leaked" scaleless Ball Python pic was in fact our male Scaleless. Although I didn't want the pic to be out there until the Herp Nation article came out in a week or so, I am at least happy that everyone had a chance to enjoy it as much as we have.
A few things... Yes it is a real snake and not clay. No, they do not have Heat Pits, but you can see the heat receptors and I'm sure they can still sense heat. They act completely normal and move just like any other snake. They do still have a layer of skin, so it DOES still have eyecaps. And yes they feel so SOFT!
I'm so excited about this project and you can hear and read the entire story with a LOAD of awesome pictures of the two of them in the Herp Nation article coming out soon! Let me know what you think about them?

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nothing new, really, but its some official confirmation. eye caps are fine, heat pits gone. and he says they move and act normal :)

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Originally Posted by OhhWatALoser

Now If we were still in youtube mode I would point out the underline parts :) but we can leave that alone.

I just wonder why do you feel the animals we keep need to be ready to go prowling the wild? I wouldn't be surprised if the bright white lucy got picked off first in the wild before the scaleless snake. I think we can both agree most would likely not survive. I doubt my husky would make it very far in the wild and she's a lot closer to the wild wolf than most dogs people own.

However they do survive in captivity, which is where that line of ball pythons will be living for now on, they might as well forget about the wild. We don't know of any problems that will effect the scaleless ability to survive in captivity, it's all speculation right now. I'm sure it won't take long for anything to come to light, brian made this a very public thing and people want answers.

Maybe my optimism stems from the fact I have scaleless breaded dragon (silkbacks) and a hairless cat (sphinx). The dragon does require lotion every so often to keep his skin from drying out, but besides that he lives life normal as any other dragon, besides the silence of the lambs jokes made. The cat I could argue being hairless actually enhance the survival of the animal in captivity, less allergies and a cat that is more likely to socialize instead of the stereotypical screw you attitude of a normal house cat.

There just seems to be so much emphasis on the animals ability to survive in the wild, which shouldn't that be our last concern?

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I am not sure what your reference to you tube mode is, (forgive me I'm an old man) but I see that you have underlined the two lines where I have referenced "characteristic". By definition a characteristic is something that is typical of a person, place, or things. Scales are a characteristic of snakes as snakes typically have scales. They would also be a characteristic of fish for the same reason. This is not to say every snake and fish has scales, but most do. Scaleless is not a characteristic because most snakes have scales and therefore is not typical. It is however, a mutation. Further down this thread someone points out that all morphs are mutations to which I whole heartedly agree. A mutation is a simple variation from the norm. A mutation may be any of the three following scenarios. It may be an enhancement. It may be of nuetral order or insignificant. It may impact negatively the species. Those mutations that enhance, tend to remain and progress or evolve. Over time, if they have a positive enough impact they may even become a characteristic. Those that are neutral have no significant impact either way and may or may not continue. But those that impact negatively usually are selected for elimination one way or another and only reoccur as randomly as the first example.

I will agree that many of these mutations (paint jobs) that we all love would probably have trouble surviving in the wild as they would be preyed upon easily because they are highly visible. You support your position by saying it is about how they survive in captivity. Since we are talking about captive snakes I will agree. Rather then referencing the wild, I probaly should have said instead, "without special assistance or provision". I consider the same point for captivity. Aside from being much more visible, most morphs can still move, locate prey, and thrive just like their wild counterparts. They require no special assistance or provision other then to be givien access to food and a suitable place (habitat) to exist. That is the distinction I am trying to make.

Yes, I am making an assumption and perhaps prematurely, that there may be some impairment with the scaleless snake's ability to sense heat and move normally. Time will prove me right or wrong. But if it proves true that the scaleless snake has difficulty moving normally or cannot sense heat for the purpose of locating prey, then it does diminish the animal and by that I mean it takes away from that which makes it a ball python. Thats why I stated it is not a characteristic. It is not typical. It is a defect. A while a defect is a mutation too, it is a mutation of the third kind. Meaning a mutation that negatively impacts the survivability in the wild or in captivity, without special assitance or provision. If this morph proves out to cause complications with the animals ability to perform its very basic functions, then I will have trouble with it. And because I am who I am, I will struggle with understanding how others wouldn't feel the same. But I know there are those that won't and that's life. I am not passing judgement, and I do not feel like I am standing on moral high ground. It is just how I feel about it and so I shared.

By the time I finished typing this, I didn't see the post above me that states most issues are normal. If that is the case then carry on and enjoy.

Wow cant believe that some people are freaking out over an animal morph. It will never be in the wild so surviving in the wild is not an issue. Also if it has any health issues im 100 percent sure brian will not breed it. He has said many times that the money is just a bonus to his bussiness his main motivation is his passion for the animals

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It's so clean and pretty. I can't wait for a year to go by so I can see this little one bigger XD


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I am not a fan of these being sold already. IMHO the scaleless should be raised, and bred, for at least 2 generations before any are sold. How does anyone know that these snakes don't develop problems as they age? How does anyone know if they can reproduce safely? what if every 5th egg is born without a patch of skin and every 10th is kinked?!?

It seems irresponsible to assume that just because 2 were born healthy that they are now good to be sold.