I think my snake loves me

I don't think it's more of a love thing but more as a "I don't find you a threat" thing and "I enjoy being held" thing

To say that something can experience fear isn't necessarily saying its capable of emotion. Everything has a fight or flight reaction to stimulation, so there is your "fear" I suppose. But, I agree that it's snake love and not the way we define love. They just get an understand of "the hand that feeds", I think. ;)


Browsing on Tapatalk from my iPhone :)

i think my snake can feel emotion but we have no way to comprehend what goes on in their head

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Originally Posted by Kodieh

To say that something can experience fear isn't necessarily saying its capable of emotion. Everything has a fight or flight reaction to stimulation, so there is your "fear" I suppose. But, I agree that it's snake love and not the way we define love. They just get an understand of "the hand that feeds", I think. ;)


Browsing on Tapatalk from my iPhone :)

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z2
Yeah, the Fight or Flight is an instinct, not an emotion.

To give it some prespective, it wasn't long ago that people considered dolphins 'fish' and thought that they weren't intelligent either. Similar thought was also applied to the great apes.

So to say that they do not have emotion is a bit of a narrow view.

What would be a more logical statement would be:

We currently do not have the means to determine with 100% certainty whether or not they are capable of emotions.

So to say for sure one way or another is to be ignorant of the fact that we just can't know at this time with our current technology and experience in analyzing thought/emotion in other species.

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Originally Posted by Vasiliki

To give it some prespective, it wasn't long ago that people considered dolphins 'fish' and thought that they weren't intelligent either. Similar thought was also applied to the great apes.

So to say that they do not have emotion is a bit of a narrow view.

What would be a more logical statement would be:

We currently do not have the means to determine with 100% certainty whether or not they are capable of emotions.

So to say for sure one way or another is to be ignorant of the fact that we just can't know at this time with our current technology and experience in analyzing thought/emotion in other species.

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I completely agree with you. Humans underestimate the intelligence of other animals (Which is what humans are- animals). What gives us the right to judge others intelligence? I'm sure all animals know more than what we think they do. I'm sure that some are even smarter than us.

It's just that we don't know for sure; Maybe we never will.

So my opinion would be: Undecided/Unsure (due to lack of information)

If snakes are mindless why does my BP bite at everyone but me?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus

The biggest difference between snakes and dolphins / humans / dogs / etc is that snakes are not social animals. Naturally, they receive no benefit from social interaction beyond breeding. They do not raise their young or hunt in packs or thrive in communities. We are emotionally attached to other humans because we need to be. Snakes do not. Many animals besides ourselves are capable of feeling emotion, but asocial animals such as snakes are not.

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Originally Posted by Vasiliki

To give it some prespective, it wasn't long ago that people considered dolphins 'fish' and thought that they weren't intelligent either. Similar thought was also applied to the great apes.

So to say that they do not have emotion is a bit of a narrow view.

What would be a more logical statement would be:

We currently do not have the means to determine with 100% certainty whether or not they are capable of emotions.

So to say for sure one way or another is to be ignorant of the fact that we just can't know at this time with our current technology and experience in analyzing thought/emotion in other species.

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Absolutely not. We can know that snakes don't feel emotion as they lack certain parts of the brain, parts that humans and dolphins possess, that process emotion. Also, to say that you will with hold any decision either way until we have 100% certainty that they dont feel emotion is you putting yourself out of ever having to make a decision. Scientific findings typically find 95% or higher probability to be statistically significant, so setting the bar at 100% is rather convenient for you, isn't it?

Wow this got emotional really fast didn't it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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Originally Posted by gsarchie

Absolutely not. We can know that snakes don't feel emotion as they lack certain parts of the brain, parts that humans and dolphins possess, that process emotion. Also, to say that you will with hold any decision either way until we have 100% certainty that they dont feel emotion is you putting yourself out of ever having to make a decision. Scientific findings typically find 95% or higher probability to be statistically significant, so setting the bar at 100% is rather convenient for you, isn't it?

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I was beginning to lose all hope till you posted that lol

I seriously cannot get my head round what some people believe :rofl:

Not really fast Kevin, as this thread is over 6 years old! Also, are you 21+? If so we are getting beers when I get home from Afghanistan in 2 1/2 months.

Snakey - I am with you about wrapping my head around what some folks believe. It honestly saddens me that 48% of the people on this site honestly believe that their snakes "love" them. :headslap:

Emotions are chemical reaction that lock situations into long term memory. This requires physical parts of the brain that reptiles do not have. Conditioning on the other hand is simply adaptation, something all creatures do. My $.02

I agree with conditioning. My snakes trust me, and remember that I do not hurt them. Though, playing devils advocate, the two base emotions that every creature has are fear and love (the boyfriend brought this up). So in THAT sense, yes. But not in the way that WE love. Their 'love' is merely trust.

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Originally Posted by iPanda

I agree with conditioning. My snakes trust me, and remember that I do not hurt them. Though, playing devils advocate, the two base emotions that every creature has are fear and love (the boyfriend brought this up). So in THAT sense, yes. But not in the way that WE love. Their 'love' is merely trust.

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every creature has two base emotions fear and love, where did you gather that piece of information I am curious as to how you would substantiate that.

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Originally Posted by gsarchie

Not really fast Kevin, as this thread is over 6 years old! Also, are you 21+? If so we are getting beers when I get home from Afghanistan in 2 1/2 months.

Snakey - I am with you about wrapping my head around what some folks believe. It honestly saddens me that 48% of the people on this site honestly believe that their snakes "love" them. :headslap:

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Aye mate it is baffling and very worrying also headslapping seems like a plan .....48% target efficiency should suffice :P

And on a more serious note for a second , I commend your commitment and dedication your a brave man to do the job you do and its good to hear your getting home soon:gj:

http://www.anapsid.org/tamingvh.html

basically, they have a hypothalamus, thus are capable of FEELING emotion, but they lack a way to express it. (that's the article in a nutshell)

Snakey - Thank you very much. I love what I do but it can be incredibly hard at times, like now at the tail end of a deployment.


This is straight from the article that you quoted iPanda.
"How do I know, the animal likes me or what I am doing?

The Hypothalamus is the part of the brain where most of our emotions come from. All reptiles have one, so they have feelings. Since they cannot talk, we don't know for sure, what feelings they have beyond the most basic ones.

The most basic emotions are fear, aggression, and pleasure. I don't think anyone will argue, that reptiles don't have these feelings and express them. They avoid what they fear, attack what makes them angry, and seek out what is pleasurable.

If you create an environment that is comfortable and pleasant, and you do things to your pet that make it feel comfortable and pleased, then the reptile will 'like' you in the sense that good things come from you, and therefore it wants to be with you.
In general, you will know quickly, if you do something your reptile does not like: it will try to get away or even bite.

Whether reptiles have more complex feelings, like 'liking', is a hard question, and I would give a guarded 'yes' for chelonians, but I don't know about others. In order to like someone, the animal has to distinguish between people and clearly prefer some over others. Chelonians do tell people apart, and they prefer some people over others. I noticed to my surprise, that there are people my friendly snake does not like for no reason I can make out.

One person relates that he has a very social turtle: When he reads a book on the floor, the turtle comes by and climbs on his back. He'll sit there for up to 15 minutes.

Make up your own mind, and you are probably right ..."

First the author makes some wild claims without any data to substantiate these claims, and at the end says make up your own mind, and you are probably right. If you believe anything that comes out of this person's mouth then I'd like to tell you why you should always vote the way that I vote and have the opinions that I have, as you appear to be easily swayed to ones viewpoint just becuase they tell you that what they believe is fact. Let me say that I'm not trying to be mean, I'm just trying to make a point.

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And reading this some more, the punctuation is horrible and the grammar could use a bit of work. This was not an article written by someone with an educatin based off of facts that they have learned through experience. It seems more and more to me that it is just full of someones opinions.

punctuation has nothing to do with it. I don't believe they 'feel' like we do, but they have the capability.

Hmmm... you state that they have the ability to feel as fact while having no evidence what-so-ever to back it up. What is so hard about not making claims without the evidence to support it? You can believe something all you want, but belief alone won't make it so.

Case in point: I believe that there is a small porcelain teapot orbiting the sun in between Mars and Jupiter. What's that, you say that it's impossible but that you can't disprove it because a teapot is too small and the area too great to search? Well, I believe it and you can't disprove it so it is there.

That sounds ridiculous, right? Here's how real science works - someone that makes a claim, outlandish or otherwise, and then they bear the responsiblity to provide evidence to support it. It is not the responsibility of the rest of the scientific community to refute the claim. If you want to claim that snakes or any other reptiles have feelings, or even the ability to feel, then it is your responsibility to provide the evidence, not mine.

Dictionary.Reference.com defines delusion as: "a fixed false belief that is resistant to reason or confrontation with actual fact." In my opinion, believing that your snakes can love you is delusional. I used to say that multiple people sharing a delusion was called religion, but apparently it applies to 48% of ball python owners as well! LOL :headslap:

I personally don't believe that snakes have emotions, and that said my fiance does. It used to bother me but I really don't care as long as my snake is 'happy' aka healthy, because thats all any animal wild, tame or human really wants. I also agree with gsarjchie that if someone wants to prove that snakes have emotions then they need to have evidence beyond, someone posted this on the internet. Some times it does seem like my snakes are 'enjoying' themselfs, but honestly its just me enjoying a beautiful creature.

It annoys me that members of this site are so hostile towards each other. It's like a constant competition on who can be more of a stuck up know it all. There is no reason to be condescending towards ANYONE'S viewpoints. YES, I BELIEVE MY SNAKE HAS FEELINGS. I can tell when he's pissed off at me. He will swivel his head back and forth squirm to get away when i've caught him mid-escape. I can sense his fury and know his life goal is to be free.... One time i put my red tailed columbian boa in a box overnight due to tank issues.... the next morning she was so angry with me she hissed and struck at me every time i tried picking her up. BUT i can also tell when she is happy to see me.... how she will calm down the second she is around my neck.... she loves car rides, and hates when i try to take her from her favorite looking spot(the drivers side head rest). And when i take her to the beach, she loves going in the water, but always lets me know when she's had enough. I don't look at my snakes as objects. They are family to me. It saddens me to see how many people have not bonded with their ball pythons.... If they had, they would realize just how much personality they have.

I, for one, am convinced that my Roses and Flash simply worship me!!! *giggles* Seriously,, it is as if they can tell when *mama* is handling them.... :snake:

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Originally Posted by Tigerlilly

It annoys me that members of this site are so hostile towards each other. It's like a constant competition on who can be more of a stuck up know it all. There is no reason to be condescending towards ANYONE'S viewpoints. YES, I BELIEVE MY SNAKE HAS FEELINGS. I can tell when he's pissed off at me. He will swivel his head back and forth squirm to get away when i've caught him mid-escape. I can sense his fury and know his life goal is to be free.... One time i put my red tailed columbian boa in a box overnight due to tank issues.... the next morning she was so angry with me she hissed and struck at me every time i tried picking her up. BUT i can also tell when she is happy to see me.... how she will calm down the second she is around my neck.... she loves car rides, and hates when i try to take her from her favorite looking spot(the drivers side head rest). And when i take her to the beach, she loves going in the water, but always lets me know when she's had enough. I don't look at my snakes as objects. They are family to me. It saddens me to see how many people have not bonded with their ball pythons.... If they had, they would realize just how much personality they have.

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Ok your snakes aren't dogs, stop treating them like it...They shouldn't be swimming in saltwater at the beach #1 and taking them for a car ride is not going to calm them down. I seriously don't get these delusional people who believe their snake is like their cat or dog, it doesn't work that way. This is all a snake does and ever wants to do.... Eat, Breed and Escape from whatever cage it's in. People get a little mental and carried away when it comes to pets in general, your snake shouldn't be something you carry everywhere you go. Handle it for 20-30min a day at home and that should really be it.

I have to point out, from the page before -

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Originally Posted by iPanda

http://www.anapsid.org/tamingvh.html

basically, they have a hypothalamus, thus are capable of FEELING emotion, but they lack a way to express it. (that's the article in a nutshell)

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A hypothalamus doesn't have anything to do with emotion, I study Psychology. It controls the basic processes of the brain - the metabolism, thirst, hunger and other basic responses. It controls the release of chemicals to start these processes. It really has nothing to do with feeling...and it is a little alarming that people will take a big word out of an article and assume that the person who wrote it was using it correctly or knows what they're talking about.

The amygdala is responsible for emotions, basically. Snakes don't have one. Humans are, of course, most famous for theirs.

As far as any animal loving anyone or anything - it's a bit of a moot point. "Love" is a term coined by humans to try and label what I think is a natural feeling for social creatures. It is a chemical reaction that keeps social animals bonded to their groups or mates for the sake of survival. No other animal rationalizes or analyzes anything like we do. These reactions serve only as a means to create a response - in the case of "love", keeping an animal with another animal for easier access to food or more protection for their offspring. They don't wonder why or whether or not they are loved back, it isn't important. Furthermore, I believe this simple process only exists in social animals because, honestly, why would a solitary creature need to feel bonded or close to anything else? It wants to be alone and it's complete makeup - physical and mental - are geared toward surviving alone. It has no reason to want the company of another and, in many cases, reason to dislike other company - because that means competition for food/mates, a predator or something else negative. Not a "friend".

That's my .02. I'm not being hostile - I'm trying to educate. People are too crazy and extreme nowadays and fads rule the world. It seems people are being taught what to think and I, for one, think it's wrong and empty-headed to believe anything that may be popular. Get the facts (the right ones), analyze them and make a decision yourself - regardless of what the media, press or your neighbor might say.

Great post HaikyFin, I couldn't agree more myself. In my response I wasn't so worried about what a hypothalamus does or whether or not a snake had one but more with the fact that the article that was quoted is completely unreliable in terms of having accurate information.

Tigerlilly -
1) If me and others trying to educate people with things that we have learned through our education and professions comes across as us walking around with our noses in the air then I would suggest to thicken up your skin just a tad. Nothing that I read came across as condescending in any way. I am guessing that you just don't understand how frustrating it is to have people say things that are simply not true when it relates to something that is important to us and that we are knowledgable about. One of my professors in college conducted research and subsequently wrote a paper that showed that Canebrake Rattlesnakes were not a subspecies of Timber Rattlesnakes but are in fact the same species. As a result I always hate hearing people talk about "canebrakes."

2) Taking your snake for car rides is exceptionally irresponsible and is not good for your snake. As stated by HaikyFin, reptiles are not social animals. Even being handled at home for short periods is stressful however not stressful enough to cause adverse health effects. This is evidenced by the fact that handling can cause WC snakes to go on a feeding strike for months at a time. Aside from being stressful a snake free in a car could easily cause an accident. What if your snake left its "favorite spot" and distracted you from the road long enough for you to drift into another lane or utility pole? What if the snake became agitated and bit your head or slithered across your eyes? Putting your snake into the water to go "swimming" is also excpetionally irresponsible. Please, share with us how you can tell that the snake has had enough swimming? Finally, your snake wasn't "mad" at you for putting it into a box, it was incredibly stressed out and felt unsafe/threatened, and defended itself the only way that it knew how, by striking at you. Also, what were the "tank issues" that caused you to not be able to properly house your snakes? I hope it wasn't a cardboard box, unless of course you taped it completely shut to ensure that escape was impossible.

If you honetly think that your snake has feelings, in light of overwelming scientific evidence, then by definition you are suffering from delusions, plain and simple. I think that my snakes are awesome and get a great amount of enjoyment from keeping them, and this is in no way diminished by the fact that they don't have any emotion for me what-so-ever. I always say that I don't care what people believe about their snakes as long as they are kept safely and humanely. I don't feel that you keep your snake in a safe manner and would ask you to please start doing so. If you must transport your snake for the purpose of moving or seeking medical care for it then please put it into either a pillowcase or into a tub with a lid secured. If in a clear tub I would cover it with a sheet so that it can't see what is going on outside of the vehicle, as this would just be added stress.

In the new posts section this shows the last post as being from last night but my post from a week ago is the last.

Mods - was something edited and it is showing up as being new?

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Originally Posted by gsarchie

In the new posts section this shows the last post as being from last night but my post from a week ago is the last.

Mods - was something edited and it is showing up as being new?

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Nothing was edited your last post from the 9th was indeed last however since this is a poll every time someone new votes it bumps the thread back up as if someone posted something new.



Sent from my DROID RAZR using Tapatalk 2

Awesome Deb, thanks for explaining that one. :)

I think people overestimate what our pets can actually do.
Yeah, I'd love to believe that my snakes care about me, if I left their life they'd be affected in an emotional way or are happy to see me when I walk by, but let's face reality here. Snakes have extremely small brains, and as someone had mentioned earlier their brains aren't made with the capability to feel emotion.

People mistake conditioning with trust or happiness, and their fight or flight instinct with fear or anger, these are instincts, not emotions.

If you want to do this with your harmless snakes, fine, but some quacks take it to the next level with venomous snakes and big cats.
There is nothing wrong with keeping an animal like that, but the second you start thinking the animal likes you and trusts you, you're a ticking time bomb for disaster.

Definitely. Whenever I'm sitting at my desk she (my snake) comes out from under her log and gives me the most adorable look of, "please take me out, I love you". Call me crazy, but I just can't believe they feel no emotion.

I think my snakes understand I feed them and give them fresh water. Some just stare at me and wait for me to come with food for them. Hmmm or maybe they are seeking affection lol ;)


Sent from iPhone 5 using tapatalk :)

I don't think I interpreted the question like the rest of you. I would never believe a snake would ever love me, however, I'm quite sure they are capable of simple emotions such as fear and pleasure. I have also recognized keeper recognition in some individuals. That said, it's worth noting they are vertebrates and have the mind of a vertebrate, as opposed to invertebrates such a tarantulas, who are truly void of emotion. (Even then, there is noted 'intelligence' contributed towards cockroaches.)

This seems to be a topic of interest on sooo many reptile forums lol. We take our "babies" out for their play time together, and contrary to things that I've read, they're extremely social with one another! There is also something that my husband & I have witnessed on more than one occasion that completely took us by surprise. When we brought little Ryu home, he had been severely neglected so he was very close to starvation and extremely dehydrated and our big female would curl herself around his entire body & lay her head across him as if protecting him. Maybe I'm reading into this and she was completely unaware of what she was doing but I like to think she was aware :P

Also, studies show that King Cobras are significantly more intelligent than what was previously thought, even showing recognition between their caregivers & strangers. So, if they are smart enough to know people, they might actually be smart enough to feel for those people? I like to believe that ours just LOVE us! I guess whether or not that is true, we sure do love them!! Oh & there is some interesting information on this link :sweeet:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...0208071717.htm

"Be wise as serpents and harmless as doves"

Here is a little more cool information I found from www.snaketalk.com

"Recent studies and observations now indicate that in spite of the fact snakes have no external ears, they do have inner ear mechanisms and can "hear" airborne sound. According to Dave and Tracy Barker in their book, BALL PYTHONS, The History, Natural History, Care, and Breeding, (citing several studies) in addition to somatic hearing, snakes are able to detect airborne sound via their inner ears. Another accepted fact was that snakes have no emotional states and all activity is a simple autonomic response to external stimuli. A quote that I used for many years (until very recently) is, "Snakes have all the intelligence of a Styrofoam cup." I had been taught and had always believed through my own observations that snakes (and other herpetofauna) could not recognize an individual human being, but were so accustomed to human contact that they felt no threat and no defensive response was indicated. Dave and Tracy's observations with Ball pythons over the years indicate that Ball pythons can in fact recognize individuals (you should read their book to get all the details). Extrapolating from these observations leads me to believe that this ability to recognize individuals may extend to other species as well, and if recognition is possible could I have been wrong all these years regarding a snakes potential for emotional responses? That would perhaps be stretching logic to the limits of reason. I am not ready to start telling my audience that my snakes love me, and I am not encouraging anyone to throw away all their old books. Much of what we have always accepted as fact is in fact, fact. My main point here is that we must never close our mind to new possibilities; never stop learning."

WOW Beautifully said!! My favorite part?...."sophomoric glee people are extracting from their feelings of supposed superiority to others"!! :rockon:

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Originally Posted by Shaun J

Food. They can identify anything warm. They can't just see you and say "hey, its my owner!!!"

I think people just like to make snakes into people and mammals. They can't get over that they basically have no feelings.

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Recent studies have shown that King Cobras can, in fact, distinguish between their caregivers and total strangers!! So if they can, why couldn't other species?

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Originally Posted by shhhli

and for those of you that want to question this, seriously, define love and then tell me if snakes fit the catagories. first and fore most would be do they defend their young AFTER they lay eggs, if they are the egg laying type. crocs/alligators do i believe, but do they also feel the need to seek comfort with other members of their species? being companion, offspring, or pack member? alright then.

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I know of some women that wouldn't fit into those catergories! Lmao

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Originally Posted by Kimber

Recent studies have shown that King Cobras can, in fact, distinguish between their caregivers and total strangers!! So if they can, why couldn't other species?

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Cobras are smarter. I dont believe bps are smart enough to. Other species of boidae may be though. Alot of ppl who have retics say theyre pretty smart. Same with what ive heard about boas. Like there actually might be something going on in there. Hots are considered the most developed snakes, as far as evolution, so i wouldnt be surprised if they were the smartest as well.

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Originally Posted by shhhli

do what now??
i do not believe for a minute that feeling secure or emboldened or safe are a definiton of love. i have never won a debate and gone "wow, i feel empowered LOVE YES" or some other .. thing that has caused emboldenment in my own personal self. yes love is very over used- but those words, they have no relation to the word love, they can be put into a sentence with the word love- but as far as someone using the word 'secure' as a synonym for love. nope.


Dictionary dot com:
and i hope im not diminishing it..?
1. a profoundly tender, passionate affection for another person.
2. a feeling of warm personal attachment or deep affection, as for a parent, child, or friend.
3. sexual passion or desire.
4. a person toward whom love is felt; beloved person; sweetheart.
5. (used in direct address as a term of endearment, affection, or the like): Would you like to see a movie, love?
6. a love affair; an intensely amorous incident; amour.
7. sexual intercourse; copulation.
8. (initial capital letter) a personification of sexual affection, as Eros or Cupid.
9. affectionate concern for the well-being of others: the love of one's neighbor.
10. strong predilection, enthusiasm, or liking for anything: her love of books.
11. the object or thing so liked: The theater was her great love.
12. the benevolent affection of God for His creatures, or the reverent affection due from them to God.
13. Chiefly Tennis. a score of zero; nothing.
14. a word formerly used in communications to represent the letter L.
–verb (used with object) 15. to have love or affection for: All her pupils love her.
16. to have a profoundly tender, passionate affection for (another person).
17. to have a strong liking for; take great pleasure in: to love music.
18. to need or require; benefit greatly from: Plants love sunlight.
19. to embrace and kiss (someone), as a lover.
20. to have sexual intercourse with.
–verb (used without object) 21. to have love or affection for another person; be in love.
—Verb phrase22. love up, to hug and cuddle: She loves him up every chance she gets.
—Idioms23. for love, a. out of affection or liking; for pleasure.
b. without compensation; gratuitously: He took care of the poor for love.

24. for the love of, in consideration of; for the sake of: For the love of mercy, stop that noise.
25. in love, infused with or feeling deep affection or passion: a youth always in love.
26. in love with, feeling deep affection or passion for (a person, idea, occupation, etc.); enamored of: in love with the girl next door; in love with one's work.
27. make love, a. to embrace and kiss as lovers.
b. to engage in sexual activity.

28. no love lost, dislike; animosity: There was no love lost between the two brothers.


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[Origin: bef. 900; (n.) ME; OE lufu, c. OFris luve, OHG luba, Goth lubō; (v.) ME lov(i)en, OE lufian; c. OFris luvia, OHG lubōn to love, L lubēre (later libēre) to be pleasing; akin to lief]


—Synonyms 1. tenderness, fondness, predilection, warmth, passion, adoration. 1, 2. Love, affection, devotion all mean a deep and enduring emotional regard, usually for another person. Love may apply to various kinds of regard: the charity of the Creator, reverent adoration toward God or toward a person, the relation of parent and child, the regard of friends for each other, romantic feelings for another person, etc. Affection is a fondness for others that is enduring and tender, but calm. Devotion is an intense love and steadfast, enduring loyalty to a person; it may also imply consecration to a cause. 2. liking, inclination, regard, friendliness. 15. like. 16. adore, adulate, worship.
—Antonyms 1, 2. hatred, dislike. 15, 16. detest, hate.

now, if you feel that some how we are taking bits of 'love' and forgetting others i am for one a bit offended. i have several types of love- for my boyfriend who i intend to spend the rest of my life with and endow a great deal of my heart and emotion- the love for my family, friends, pets and things that i enjoy to do at leasure- i am sorry, i do not feel in any shape form or fashion that anything a snake will feel or 'think' comes anywhere near any of those i have just described.

one might say that #10 could support your ideas BUT lets look at it a bit closer.
My Snake LOVES his tree limb.
reasons:
-stake out for prey
-protection from predators
-temperature/climate

you could say that that, is, indeed love but i have sever doubts, why? because the snake did not decide on that tree branch. through experience, location, or bodily needs did that snake pick that tree branch. only does it continue to go to the branch is because it -knows- it can get the food better and have a higher predatory success rate OR that it feels for the time being THAT is the location of safety when it is just as likely to hide anywhere else and FINALLY its BODY is telling it it needs that temperature, that humidity that basking spot RIGHT NOW for its on life's purposes. later its body will tell it to go higher or lower. snakes imo are like an organic machine, living breathing and deserving of the care and effort we bestow upon them, but a machine none the less.
eat. sleep. poop. shed. mate. reproduce. survive.

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Let me first say, I'm only of average intellect, and would never want to insult ANYONE else's intelligence because they have a different opinion than mine. But I totally understand the use of the word "safe" & "secure" in correlation with the word "love", and while not exclusively synonomous, are relative. For example, if I didn't feel safe & secure with my husband, I wouldn't love him. And I'm not sure how much my children would love me if they didn't feel secure & safe with me lol. Also, a strong point could be made for #18 "to need or require; benefit greatly from: Plants love sunlight". Without a doubt, we know that plants are incapable of any feeling given that they lack a central nervous system, but here it is, used in this example.

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Originally Posted by Mike41793

Cobras are smarter. I dont believe bps are smart enough to. Other species of boidae may be though. Alot of ppl who have retics say theyre pretty smart. Same with what ive heard about boas. Like there actually might be something going on in there. Hots are considered the most developed snakes, as far as evolution, so i wouldnt be surprised if they were the smartest as well.

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I'm not sure that they are either actually lol but I am open to any new possibility. A bumblebee shouldn't be able to fly but he can with no explanation ;)

That's a good point, and for that matter, what's the cause of the major "stress" that balls suffer if they have no feelings. Being moved from one home to another or loud, raucous noises shouldn't affect them at all. Isn't "stress" an emotion caused by other emotions compiling & not an instinct?

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Originally Posted by repforlife

O.k look it i am not here to get into a peeing match with anyone.My female was 12 years old,my male is 10 years old,If you seperate them and then introduce them,they will breed,i have allways housed Ball Pythons together with out any negative out come,the eggs that were in her were infertile i have never seen any mating going on with either one of them,some snakes do in fact still produce eggs with out a male around,well mine happened to do just that with out mating.I have been into reptiles for 22 years +.I would like to think that i know what i am doing.And yes,Ball Pythons and Red Tails are very social with each other.Now i am not saying all snakes can be social with each other,but i know for a fact that at least mine are.Scientist dont know everything,it is experience that counts.Books do not tell all.I do not know where all of you are getting your information from,but you need to recap and do some more research.Just an opinion.Not bashing.

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I totally agree with everything you've said!! My balls, while not housed together, are all pulled from their enclosures at a certain time for "play" & there's no way to keep them seperated :) They've shown no aggression towards each other from any of the encounters, nor do they get "stressed", go off feed, etc. So while they may not be social in terms of other animal standards, they certainly like to cuddle together! I am so sorry that you lost one of your babies, I know how attached one can get to these creatures :)

I don't think my rosy boas could care less who took care of them, fed them, handled them. They do not show any kind of emotional response. But having said that, I think they deserve a little more credit than is often given. They seem to attempt to solve (very basic) problems, and seem to show some signs of some form of curiosity. When I first got my rosies there was a small flaw that allowed them to escape their cage. They both quickly learned where this flaw was, and would go straight to it. Once it was fixed, they gave up for a time, but recently seem to be testing it out again.

Years ago when I had a ball python he showed some signs of "something more" going on behind his eyes. He always seemed to know when it was really time to eat, whether or not he was hungry at any other time. Once when I made the mistake of sticking my hand in his cage during feeding time, he bit me. He very quickly let go and hid himself in his hide as if he were ashamed of what he had done. I can't say he actually was ashamed, I may be attributing something that wasn't there, but it really did seem like something more was going on. He never bit me before or after that.

I think in general the keepers have more fondness for the snakes, than the snakes have for the keeper. I won't completely dismiss a possibility of something more though.

my snake loves me.... he licks my nose

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That's a good point, and for that matter, what's the cause of the major "stress" that balls suffer if they have no feelings. Being moved from one home to another or loud, raucous noises shouldn't affect them at all. Isn't "stress" an emotion caused by other emotions compiling & not an instinct?

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Stress isn't an emotion. It's actually a chemical reaction in the brain to something negative that may cause harm. Stress is uncomfortable and animals that go through stress automatically seek to relieve that stress by running away, biting, hiding, etc. It's a release of chemicals and nothing more complex than that. Humans make it more complex because we have the ability to think. A human stuck in traffic experiences the same type of stress as a zebra being chased by a lion - and there is no reason for it, it's just something humans do unnecessarily. We put emotions into it - stress itself isn't emotion and certainly wouldn't be caused by other emotions compiling. In the human world, you might stress because you're job is on the line and things are tense with your significant other but these things are stressful to you because your brain has told your body that there is some unfathomable reason to release that chemical, not because you're emotional about it.

It's very difficult to explain. Humans are very dumb while being very intelligent at the same time. As I said before - I think we feel like everything else does, but we try to rationalize and understand what we feel, so we've lost the understanding that most of it is just instinct, chemicals and functions meant to keep us alive and thriving. Nothing more. People are animals, that's all. Therefore, animals are animals - that's all. Because we think complexly and nothing else does we try so hard to find this unique gift in other creatures and the cold fact is that we're alone in our understanding and intelligence - and we simply cannot seem to accept that.

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Originally Posted by Shaun J

Snakes don't understand emotion other than "I'm gonna eat you!!!"

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Thats not an emotion!! its a biological urge :P

I don't know about my snake loving me, but I sure do love my snake!:)

I am not sure they like me or not. But, I love it when they ask for food. On feeding days, they look up me with their eyes and expect food even when the rats are in the freezer. They touch my hand with their tongue and look up with their expecting eyes when I put my hand in their tubs.

http://www.naturescornermagazine.com/snakes_learn.html

Snakes have the ability to learn and adapt to their environments (in one way or another). I believe that all animals have emotions of some kind regardless, but who is to say that snakes can't learn to love or at least recognize a person to a higher degree. My Ball Python, Trouser, knows who i am and always comes to greet (not anyone else mind you) ever time I come home.

I'm not the only one who feeds him either, so it isn't just he recognizes i feed him.

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Originally Posted by HaikyFin

Stress isn't an emotion. It's actually a chemical reaction in the brain to something negative that may cause harm. Stress is uncomfortable and animals that go through stress automatically seek to relieve that stress by running away, biting, hiding, etc. It's a release of chemicals and nothing more complex than that. Humans make it more complex because we have the ability to think. A human stuck in traffic experiences the same type of stress as a zebra being chased by a lion - and there is no reason for it, it's just something humans do unnecessarily. We put emotions into it - stress itself isn't emotion and certainly wouldn't be caused by other emotions compiling. In the human world, you might stress because you're job is on the line and things are tense with your significant other but these things are stressful to you because your brain has told your body that there is some unfathomable reason to release that chemical, not because you're emotional about it.

It's very difficult to explain. Humans are very dumb while being very intelligent at the same time. As I said before - I think we feel like everything else does, but we try to rationalize and understand what we feel, so we've lost the understanding that most of it is just instinct, chemicals and functions meant to keep us alive and thriving. Nothing more. People are animals, that's all. Therefore, animals are animals - that's all. Because we think complexly and nothing else does we try so hard to find this unique gift in other creatures and the cold fact is that we're alone in our understanding and intelligence - and we simply cannot seem to accept that.

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Just cuz the snakes don't speak don't assume that they don't try to rationalize certain things like humans do.. Untill someone around here learns how to speak snake u can't say for sure one way or another as far as how they feel or think.. Just my opinion...


Also it has been proven in humans that are emotions are chemicals reactions in our brain.. Depression anxiety stress love it's all basically chemichals

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Originally Posted by HaikyFin

Stress isn't an emotion. It's actually a chemical reaction in the brain to something negative that may cause harm. Stress is uncomfortable and animals that go through stress automatically seek to relieve that stress by running away, biting, hiding, etc. It's a release of chemicals and nothing more complex than that. Humans make it more complex because we have the ability to think. A human stuck in traffic experiences the same type of stress as a zebra being chased by a lion - and there is no reason for it, it's just something humans do unnecessarily. We put emotions into it - stress itself isn't emotion and certainly wouldn't be caused by other emotions compiling. In the human world, you might stress because you're job is on the line and things are tense with your significant other but these things are stressful to you because your brain has told your body that there is some unfathomable reason to release that chemical, not because you're emotional about it.

It's very difficult to explain. Humans are very dumb while being very intelligent at the same time. As I said before - I think we feel like everything else does, but we try to rationalize and understand what we feel, so we've lost the understanding that most of it is just instinct, chemicals and functions meant to keep us alive and thriving. Nothing more. People are animals, that's all. Therefore, animals are animals - that's all. Because we think complexly and nothing else does we try so hard to find this unique gift in other creatures and the cold fact is that we're alone in our understanding and intelligence - and we simply cannot seem to accept that.

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With that logic no emotions are actually emotions b/c all emotional responses can be boiled down to chemical response and reactions in bio-neuro pathways and interactions of enzymes, bio chemicals and cells/brain regions.

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Originally Posted by BoostedMX3

Just cuz the snakes don't speak don't assume that they don't try to rationalize certain things like humans do.. Untill someone around here learns how to speak snake u can't say for sure one way or another as far as how they feel or think.. Just my opinion...

has been proven in humans that are emotions are chemicals reactions in our brain.. Depression anxiety stress love it's a basically chemichals

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I speak Parseltongue fluently in all 3 dialects.


But being serious here.
Snakes don't have the same brain as humans. They're missing the part that processes emotion. They're instinctual creatures who can be conditioned and learn to recognize certain things, such as predator, prey, good, bad, neutral. Very simple and raw thoughts.

And everyone here is describing 'love', which is a human emotion. And shouldn't be used in the same context with animals. An animal may feel their own version of 'love', but it isn't the same as the ones humans express. You are anthropomorphising animals, which is a no no. :P

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