How Low?

350 spiders what ever.

It takes a good bit of the work out of it if they're so cheap and thusly lessens my thrill. Sorry, but that comment just pissed me off.

Market this Market that, even if it is how things are in the 'real' world for prices to drop, things to flop etc, this is such *you know what*. Honestly, if people would keep their dang'd heads and not 'dump' on the 'market' i think this would last longer. no one seems to be planning for the long run, for tomorrow. sure 25k is great today like said- but wouldn't it be great if you did some actual .... work ... and had it last every year? i mean. jesus. this is retarded. its selfish, immature, and bratty imo.

i dont feel the bp market in general is in danger just yet but this crap is so stupid. oh recessive are the way to go so lets just rip away any value on a dom or co dom.

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Originally Posted by sho220

Interesting how the hottest topic on this forum is about the almighty dollar...

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no its not, its about someone deciding they're pretty much going to ruin a lot of hard work and money and time other people have bestowed upon their animals.

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Originally Posted by sho220

I also find it interesting how a lot of breeders go on and on about what a great investment ball's are, and how anyone can get in on it and recoup their initial investment many, many, many times over...it's better than the stock market, it's a sure thing, it's money in the bank, this is just the beginning, blah blah blah...

Now this MKR thing has crashed the whole market....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

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no he hasn't its not black tuesday or whatever, nothing has changed. YET. but this isnt helpful for the long run. i would definatly NOT consider bps as a poor investment choice, there will always be a good ROI. Don't snot up breeders because they told the TRUTH and now one guy is trying to crap on everyone else. Honestly I think there's a reason to his rhyme and time will tell more.

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Originally Posted by sho220

I guess my point is that if you're in this for investment purposes, you better be prepared for things like this...

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as far as i know no one has put their life savings into this- but 1$ or 100$, that guy has potentially screwed over his previous customers and the people that buy his cheap-o's and ruin things for other people

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Originally Posted by sho220

Fortunately I love these critters because they look cool and have great personalities!!!

Come on $350 SPIDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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so you're the only one? don't you care about the effort others have put into this and spent years on? that's what pisses me off the most, people thinking "oh i can buy this and its mine and i can do whatever to the market that i want" well forget that! You didn't hunt down these animals, you didn't first work to test their genetics, basiclly i find it EXTREMELY disrespectful to the people that came before you.

Now this is all my way of thinking, and the end.

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Originally Posted by sho220

Interesting how the hottest topic on this forum is about the almighty dollar...

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You do realize that to some people this is a living, and the "almighty dollar" is how they feed their families and pay the mortgage

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Originally Posted by sho220

I also find it interesting how a lot of breeders go on and on about what a great investment ball's are, and how anyone can get in on it and recoup their initial investment many, many, many times over...it's better than the stock market, it's a sure thing, it's money in the bank, this is just the beginning, blah blah blah...

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It is a great investment, but like any investments people have some control and are able to ruin a good thing.

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Originally Posted by sho220

Now this MKR thing has crashed the whole market....ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!

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Lol, hardly, but it is irresponsible, and, frankly, stupid to sell an item lower than market value. As was mentioned earlier someone purchased most of them from MKR (who apparently was just trying to make a quick buck, not bring it back to the public, since they sold most of it to one person). That person can probably flip them for a 600-800 profit.

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Originally Posted by sho220

I guess my point is that if you're in this for investment purposes, you better be prepared for things like this...

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Sure, but you also have the right to look down on irresponsible pricing :)

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Originally Posted by sho220

Fortunately I love these critters because they look cool and have great personalities!!!

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That was a rather trollish comment, Im pretty sure almost everyone who is on these forums, and who sells these wonderful animals for a living/side job love the critters as well.

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Originally Posted by sho220

Come on $350 SPIDERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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Sure, they will get there, but hopefully not before the market supports it :)

Who in the world tried to tell you that BP's are a "sure thing" or "money in the bank". If anyone falls for that line of BS, they must be dealing with one of our hobbies most infamous flim flam artists.

Whatever MKR has done to the market with their ridiculous quick dumping of valuable snakes aside, nothing is ever a sure thing when you breed living creatures. Ask anyone who breeds top race horses and has a mare slip a foal too soon...there are just no guarantees...this isn't a "make a buck fast" thing and never will be (thank God for that).

It's a long term thing so for me, I'll just sit and watch long term. I think in the end whatever quick cash MKR made, they've hurt their reputation and their clients with this stupid business decision and this is a very small world with people with really long memories.

They didn't "give back to their clients", but they did stick it to them.

I think BP's have developed a following of people who decided early on (before buying their 1st morph) that they wanted to make X amount in one season Vs X amount in 2-3 seasons. It's short term mentality to drop your pants on prices like MKR and countless others, but it's also somewhat short term mentality to get upset at these lower prices.

I guess I might feel different if I shelled out $20,000 for a Lesser last year and just saw one of the top breeders selling them for $2500! OUCH!

I still love these snakes, I think they are amazing and still plan on buying and breeding the same morphs I wanted since day 1. Just now they will cost me 70%-90% less. I think everyone needs to decide early on what they feel comfortable with in spending/investing. Don't put in what you can't afford to support.

If I bought a Spider today for $1000 and they came down to $250 next year, I could care less. Now, if I would've bought at $5000 and 6 months later see the same breeder selling the same snake for $800, I would go :cens0r: ! Not because of the $$$, but for the feeling of "I got taken!".

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Also, Vaughn is dead on about KS. Stop making breeders post prices and you will stop the out in the open undercutting. Undercutting done behind the scenes has less chances of harming the market as a whole.

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Undercutting is still undercutting no matter where it happens......and even if KS were to drop their 'must post a price with ad' rule.....people that wanted to offload a bunch of snakes could still post their low price...or just put them on their website....I don't understand how that rule hurts the market....I would think it helps the market by establishing known prices for a specific group of animals....if no one put prices with ads, you would have to call everyone and shop around.....or just buy from someone that is well known in pay 3 times as much because you don't know what everyone else is selling them for ;)

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Originally Posted by shhhli

350 spiders what ever.

It takes a good bit of the work out of it if they're so cheap and thusly lessens my thrill. Sorry, but that comment just pissed me off.

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I don't want this to be work...

So what's wrong with me getting a pet snake that happens to be a Spider for what I consider a reasonable price for a pet???

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Originally Posted by sho220

I don't want this to be work...

So what's wrong with me getting a pet snake that happens to be a Spider for what I consider a reasonable price for a pet???

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Nothing. Its just the fact that if you do get a spider at a 'reasonable' price it means that people have been screwed over, prices lowered, and many a thing 'bad'. Its nice to hope and dream, but when an animal that is in the several thou drops to 300$ in a year or so, somthings up.

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Originally Posted by daniel1983

Undercutting is still undercutting no matter where it happens......and even if KS were to drop their 'must post a price with ad' rule.....people that wanted to offload a bunch of snakes could still post their low price...or just put them on their website....I don't understand how that rule hurts the market....I would think it helps the market by establishing known prices for a specific group of animals....if no one put prices with ads, you would have to call everyone and shop around.....or just buy from someone that is well known in pay 3 times as much because you don't know what everyone else is selling them for ;)

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Again, it's up to the customers to get educated and do their research regardless. When you get ready to buy a car, do you go to one dealership, accept the trade in offer they give you and buy the car? Or, do you shop around to different dealerships, check online, research your trade in value, visit 2-3-4 dealerships during the negotiations, negotiate your trade in price, negotiate your vehicle and extras, negotiate the dealer fees, services, etc, etc?

I guess the million dollar question is "What is the known price?" when prices are being lowered each week.

How can you set a price in a free market environment?
You can't...

Trying to see the good in any "bad" situation, sometime I think that shocks to the market might be uncomfortable in the short term, but think about it like this- an unstable market with lots of uncertainty are going to cause some of the fly-by-nighters in it for a quick buck to get out as fast as possible. It will also deter new scumbags and scammers from jumping into the market. Those who are in for the long term will adapt and will be there when its all over. All in all, a market with declining prices could all but eliminate Jimmy and friends. Just something to chew on....