Update on Fluffy's clutch + pics

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Originally Posted by JLC

But different people are going to percieve "what's best" quite differently at times. If someone else maintains thriving, healthy snakes, then what does it matter if their methods differ from yours?

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Originally Posted by jglass38

But I have the right to point out why I think it is wrong and I certainly have the right to correct people who agree with you based on artifical human feelings that they have assigned to their animals. Best of luck and hopefully no hard feelings on your end! :)

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Agreed. I also just don't want people thinking that those are the kinds of reasons that I have chosen this route. Thank you, and no hard feelings here.

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Originally Posted by Sapphire7

Hey Rapture how do the eggs looks now? :)

Do you feel they may hatch soon. I cant wait to see pics of pipping and babies comming out of the eggs.:D

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None of the eggs have gone bad as far as molding or discoloration. My biggest concern is that one of them especially has lost much of its full round shape. I am not sure exactly what day to expect them to pip at, as they have been incubating in fluctuant ambient temperatures, but today is day 52 and I think I can reasonably expect some action around day 60.

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Originally Posted by Rapture

I realize there are probably no large-scale breeders that practice maternal incubation with their BP's. ...

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I really want to stay out of the debate, but... I was a visitor at a (very) large scale breeder's facility a couple months ago. He has an entire wall dedicated to large double door beverage cooler incubators (at least, I perceived them to be converted coolers). He was showing me around the facility, and pulled out a tub in one of his racks. Inside was a large female ball tightly coiled around her eggs. I don't know how many females he had incubating their own eggs, but he definitely had at least one.

Steve

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Originally Posted by hoo-t

I really want to stay out of the debate, but... I was a visitor at a (very) large scale breeder's facility a couple months ago. He has an entire wall dedicated to large double door beverage cooler incubators (at least, I perceived them to be converted coolers). He was showing me around the facility, and pulled out a tub in one of his racks. Inside was a large female ball tightly coiled around her eggs. I don't know how many females he had incubating their own eggs, but he definitely had at least one.

Steve

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Care to divulge the breeder? Also, did he just show you a nice morph and she had happened to lay eggs or did he point out that he was maternally incubating?

Where is the "beating a dead horse" smiley when you need it?


Rapture...good luck on the eggs...can't wait to see the babies!!!

I did read that article, but I did not think it is adequate enough to relate it to captive breeding. First you are taking wild animals, and you can not know the history of these females. Secondly they incubated on aspen. I don't know of any articles that recommends that as a substrate, and the humidity levels were not measured. It's possible a lot of the the moisture loss would be a result of the incubating technique alone. Thirdly the study focused solely on the eggs, and the care of the mother was never measured. They say they were apparently healthy, but based on what criteria? Anyway, I wasn't very impressed with the article.

I agree that this subject is a touchy one. Maternal incubation is done, but it's not very common due to the success of artificial incubation. I'm not saying that you can't do it, but that too much emphasis is placed on the females rights to hatch her own eggs, the beauty of the process or other intangible measurements. I'm rooting for these eggs to hatch as well, and I hope they are some healthy babies. :banana:

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Originally Posted by jglass38

Care to divulge the breeder? Also, did he just show you a nice morph and she had happened to lay eggs or did he point out that he was maternally incubating?

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Jamie,
As you've probably already figured out, I don't like to drop names. But I think that in this instance, no harm would be done. Mike Wilbanks of Constrictors Unlimited is the breeder I was referring to. The female that was incubating maternally was at least a normal looking female. I have no idea what her genetics were, or the genetics of the sire. If I recall correctly, his incubators may have been full at the time. However, with Bob Clark right around the corner, and others that Mike is affiliated with, I'm sure he would have been able to come up with an incubator if he felt it was necessary. Obviously, if he has a wall full of incubators, he prefers that method.

Since I DID state his name, I need to also state that except for what I stated as fact, my statements in this message are either opinions or suppositions based on my observations.

Steve

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Originally Posted by sho220

Where is the "beating a dead horse" smiley when you need it?


Rapture...good luck on the eggs...can't wait to see the babies!!!

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Although I don't agree that its been beaten anywhere near to death, here ya go!

http://www.glassreptiles.com/pictures/horse.gif

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Originally Posted by tigerlily

I did read that article, but I did not think it is adequate enough to relate it to captive breeding. First you are taking wild animals, and you can not know the history of these females. Secondly they incubated on aspen. I don't know of any articles that recommends that as a substrate, and the humidity levels were not measured. It's possible a lot of the the moisture loss would be a result of the incubating technique alone. Thirdly the study focused solely on the eggs, and the care of the mother was never measured. They say they were apparently healthy, but based on what criteria? Anyway, I wasn't very impressed with the article.

I agree that this subject is a touchy one. Maternal incubation is done, but it's not very common due to the success of artificial incubation. I'm not saying that you can't do it, but that too much emphasis is placed on the females rights to hatch her own eggs, the beauty of the process or other intangible measurements. I'm rooting for these eggs to hatch as well, and I hope they are some healthy babies. :banana:

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Excellent points all around!