The Live vs F/T debate

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Originally Posted by Zincubus

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I'm only voicing an opinion shared by others in the UK and many , many other countries .
It's hardly a one man mission ..

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The thinking of Scots, Brits, and Euros, are typically opposite of what MOST Americans think anyway.

We left your island and fought the War of 1776 to be free of restricted thinking and to go our own way and that is how we want it to stay.

We sure don't need, nor asked, or want Euro's shooting their hypocritical and judgmental arrows across the pond in their mind of moral superiority!

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Originally Posted by Reinz

The thinking of Scots, Brits, and Euros, are typically opposite of what MOST Americans think anyway.

We left your island and fought the War of 1776 to be free of restricted thinking and to go our own way and that is how we want it to stay.

We sure don't need, nor asked, or want Euro's shooting their hypocritical and judgmental arrows across the pond in their mind of moral superiority!

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AHEM!! :mad:

Don't make me feel judge-mental. You might not like the result. :taz:

I took issue with someone feeding a young, live Ball Python to a Kingsnake in this forum. I voiced displeasure, and was told "that's the cycle of life," and "educate yourself on the dietary requirements of Kingsnakes" etc. While I'm perfectly aware kingsnakes eat other snakes in the wild, I felt feeding a Ball Python (or any snake) to a Kingsnake in captivity to be probably unnecessary. I asked for literature on why Kingsnakes ** require ** other snakes in their diet, and to date, no such documentation has been furnished.

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Originally Posted by scalrtn

I took issue with someone feeding a young, live Ball Python to a Kingsnake in this forum. I voiced displeasure, and was told "that's the cycle of life," and "educate yourself on the dietary requirements of Kingsnakes" etc. While I'm perfectly aware kingsnakes eat other snakes in the wild, I felt feeding a Ball Python (or any snake) to a Kingsnake in captivity to be probably unnecessary. I asked for literature on why Kingsnakes ** require ** other snakes in their diet, and to date, no such documentation has been furnished.

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Sorry....fresh out of butt-hurt balm.

Do your own research. Sad when you gotta rely on others to provide you with knowledge.

However since you can't or won't, 73% of a kingsnakes diet is Squamate. 11% is mammalian. The rest is avian or eggs.

There is plenty of evidence in other primarily Squamate feeding snakes that show that the fat and cholesterol levels in mammals lead to obesity, hepatic lipids sis and a host of other health issues.

Live

Fast Shadow

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Originally Posted by Skiploder

Sorry....fresh out of butt-hurt balm.

Do your own research. Sad when you gotta rely on others to provide you with knowledge.

However since you can't or won't, 73% of a kingsnakes diet is Squamate. 11% is mammalian. The rest is avian or eggs.

There is plenty of evidence in other primarily Squamate feeding snakes that show that the fat and cholesterol levels in mammals lead to obesity, hepatic lipids sis and a host of other health issues.

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I tried, and came up empty. "Other primarily Squamate feeding snakes" doesn't prove anything. If you won't provide data that proves captive Kingsnakes require other snakes in their diet, I'll remain a skeptic. In the meantime, I'll assume your diet consists primarily of lightbulbs that fail to illuminate.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Well that just shows you're lack of experience and ignorance when it comes to live feeding :gj:

Funny how people feeding live (and I mean experienced in doing so not just one live prey a month) are a lot more open minded when it come to f/t and wouldn't use words such as never or lower themselves to....

As for the OP if you do feed live make sure you are prepared to do so for a while if your snake does not switch back.

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Agreed. I said this before, I'll say it again.

You buy a snake that eats rodents
You buy rodents
You gas chamber the rodents to death
You freeze the rodent
Only to later spend hours thawing rodents
Only to feed to snake that eats live rodents naturally

If that isn't morbid, but feeding live is? I will happily not enter the Twilight Zone. The only argument for f/t I believe in is risk of harming my snakes. I had one get bit by an Asf and I nearly switched to f/t.

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Originally Posted by 200xth

You can think whatever you want, there is nothing unreasonable or lacking sense in live feeding.

No one cares that you feed frozen, but quit trying to act like you're some sort of morally superior person because of it. Not a single thing you feed your snake was not alive at one point, yet you act like you're somehow so much better than anyone else.

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Fast Shadow

Okay, I've tried to stay out of this, but Jesus do you like banging that morality drum, Zinc. Here's the thing though: I don't think there is more than even a handful of people on this forum, if any, that are making the claim the live feeding is somehow superior or preferable to f/t whenever possible. Most of the posts I've seen you chime in on on tutting at people about live feeding have gone like this:

Person: my snake isn't eating, I wish for my snake to eat and be healthy.

Other people with experience in getting a fussy snake to eat: try offering live if it won't take f/t just to make sure it's eating. Once it's feeding regularly, start the switch to f/t.

You: Live feeding is BARBARIC and you should all feel BAD about it!

This might not be how you intend to come off as, but it sure rubs people the wrong way when you jump down their throats for not conforming to your personal standard for morality, especially when the issue at hand is not which is better, but how do I make sure my snake doesn't starve itself. Switching fussy snakes to f/t can be especially difficult for newbie ball python keepers, which this forum sees a LOT of. You are looking down your nose at people for making choices with the well being of their pet in mind. If it's a choice between feeding live and not feeding at all, you bet your buns most people here are going to put the snake first, not your emotional consideration. Most of the people you've been "debating" with (read: shaking your finger and acting like a snob at, then being surprised why no one likes it) actually do feed f/t, and recommend others do so because it is generally cheaper, easier, and safer when done correctly. However, live feeding is also safe WHEN DONE CORRECTLY, and everyone here has different circumstances under which they must operate, from first time owners of single snakes, to breeders with decades of experience who handle large collections on a daily basis. You should really stop demanding the world march in lockstep with your views and learn to respect the differences. Things will go much smoother for you.

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Originally Posted by Daigga

This train needs to come off the tracks.

Cruelty to feeders is not acceptable, and improper euthanasia is definitely cruel. A proper live feeding results in a quick and easy death with little or no danger to a snake; a stunned feeder is both wildly inhumane and an unnecessary risk to the snake (those feeders come out of a stun scared and in defend mode, the danger is real). I'll advocate feeding live, f/t, f/k, but never stunned.

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They die instantly. I'd rather die from faceplanting off of a 2 story building then have my neck snapped or get strangled by Andre the Giant.

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Originally Posted by Deborah

Funny are barbaric F/T and F/K feeding can really be too but I guess our friend will dismiss that.

As for you obviously have no business feeding P/K.

If you can't respect the feeders and treat them humanely whether you feed live or P/K you have no business owning a snake and should stick to a pet rock.

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Well i guess thats your opinion, baby doll.