I think my snake loves me

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Originally Posted by snakey68

currently at 7 straight jackets and counting :crazy:

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Lol,a lot more than that now,add one for me too :D:rolleye2:

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Originally Posted by Shaun J

Once ten people vote " My snake loves me" I'm going to just go and jump off a cliff.

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Lol would you like a parachute,:rolleyes: jk

This thread was a good read.

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Originally Posted by DarrinLowe

Wouldn't the mere fact that a snake associates your scent with safety represent atleast a primitive form of love?

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No.

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Originally Posted by DarrinLowe

You're contradicting yourself my friend. If a snake was only seeking warmth and security I'm sure the seemingly unnoticed by us, vibrations of the human body would be enough to throw it off. The problem is that you're being far too closed minded in your concept of love. A snake is not a human being, therefore it cannot love in a human being manner, though the snake is living so it is capable of loving in such a way, regardless of wether the snake does love in that way, does not change the fact that it is capable, in one way or another of loving.

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Why is the fact that something is alive necessarily lead to it being capable of love? Your logic is severely flawed. Do trees love? Trees are alive. The question is does a snake have the parts of the brain where love reside. I would say no based on my understanding of the reptile brain.

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Originally Posted by DarrinLowe

To assume that it is a simple being that merely succumbs to a genetic code, that instinctively determines it's actions would be the same as assuming that human beings are built much the same, but have evolved to such a level that our minds convince ourselves we have a purpose, so that we continue to follow our own base instincts, due to becoming too aware of ourselves as an existence. So think about the implications of your words before you voice them.

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I actually believe that humans are nothing more than animals with complex brains that extrapolate greater meaning from the behaviors driven by instincts and guided by our brains. I don't see anything wrong with that belief.

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Originally Posted by DarrinLowe

What it comes down to, is wether you believe in god. Which provides a rather mixed perspective, as one who does not believe in god, must believe that all animals are capable of what we perceive as love, as all animals are capable of evolution. If one believes in god, then we are the mere shepards of a world of absent minded primitives that may only base their lives off of instinctive associations.

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I don't believe in any gods and I don't accept that all animals are capable of love so I would say that "must believe" is a bit of a stretch. Perhaps you should think about the implications of your words before you voice them. Not believing in a God or gods tells us 1 and only one thing about a person. They do not believe in a God or gods. Atheists hold a wide range of beliefs that are widely different and, once again, only one necessarily in common. Don't lump Atheists together. Its as ignorant as lumping Christians or any other theists together.

A snake can't hear a kissing sound.. That wouldn't even make enough of a vibration for a snake to feel. They feel vibration and also vibration from certain sounds or wavelengths but they can not hear. So the snake that is smelling, or as you put it, kissing you lips after you do that, is inspecting it's surroundings. It knows you are not a threat. It can pick up the heat from your lips. It can feel and smell your breath.. etc etc..

Snakes are scientifically, biologically unable to feel the human emotion love. It's a scientific impossibility. So why is there even a question?? Thats what I don't get here. It's like saying grass is orange. The earth is shaped like a triangle. Humans hatch from eggs.. It's simply not fact and makes those people look very silly.

One could go on forever about how their snake behaves around them but it all boils down to the facts of nature, biology, and the brains ability to feel..

Grass is orange though ;)

Study up on light physics.

You could say that my arguement is flawed, but the implications I have made are very well considered. You mere perception of this whole argument, and your profession of your own argument implies in itself that you feel above your own belief of humanities animal nature. :salute: It is obvious that your logic is flawed. My statement of things that are alive being capable of feeling love is that they have in one way or another a dependency on certain aspects of their surroundings. Much like how a ball python is going to go off of feed, if it is not in the right surroundings. It is not where it is comfortable. To be able to percieve comfort, or trust, shows in itself that the animal is capable in some form of love. I think the problem here is the perception of love. Humanity has a whole whackload of conditions it puts on love.. Love is this, if this is present, or if this isnt present, blah blah blah. Love is love. Love is the attraction of itself. And in the laws of attraction, all arguments are invalid, and valid. So to merely having the capacity of saying NO you're wrong. Is only stating that you are ignorant, and have grown up in a corrupt society with the belief that the answer you have been taught is the only answer that could possibly be correct.

"It is when man believes that he has found the answer, that all human progress has stopped"

Ok, but if you think things such as comfort, trust, or respect, which are things certain reptiles appear to be able to feel, can also be considered love, then why do we even have a different word and definition for "love"?

I believe human love also has all those same traits, but it isn't reasonable to say reptiles can feel that emotion. It's a matter of emotion. I don't even think reptiles can feel fear in the way that we do. Defensive behavior is just that. Instinct. Kill or be killed.. Fight or flight.

In my full belief, when the word "love" was defined here it wasn't meant to be anything like human love towards another human. No I am not crazy enough to believe that my snakes loves me in the same way my fiance does. I don't believe any animal can have the complexity of love that humans carry. But I do believe they show their own form of love ie: "I recognize your scent and it is comforting to me because whenever you hold me I get warm and receive positive responses and praise, and you're warm, therefore I am going to show you affection back" or "I am really sick and every time you come near me I know that I get Qtipsshoved down my throat but its making me feel better so I am going to give you affection because you are warm and make me feel better."(And no I do not think a snake knows what a Qtip is for all the people that are overly litteral here.) But either way, don't assume when people say that word love it is they type of love that a human shares with a human, think more like a cat, it's the only animal I've been able to compare a snake to so far.

Also, we don't know what animals are truly thinking. Maybe our snakes "love us" maybe they just see us as a huge freaking goal to eat when they get bigger much like the "adult" plate when you're a kid. All I know is something makes me snake show some forms of affection with me, and if all the science buffs on here want to truly believe that their snake is a mindless killing machine that only doesn't eat them because it doesn't think it can then you can have that. But I am a believer, I am a dreamer, and I think my snake loves me!!!!

We don't have a different word for love. It's that we are too surrounded in the language presented to us in life that we have abandoned the language of our minds.
Human love is only different because we tried to define it. And in the generalized definition of what we think love should be, we have changed it all together, atleast from the human perspective. Thus creating, human love. Which only resembles love in the slightest essence. Love, even at it's simplest form, is still love.

I just thought of something. Perhaps not ball pythons... But this could apply to an array of other snakes... My answer would be, "Yes, a snake can love." Or at least "like" you. Reticulated pythons can "choose" individuals. They choose who they get along with, and who they loathe.

In a sense, that's love. "I'd love to not bite you" scenario...

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Originally Posted by RWillinnable

So, you are saying that love, whatever that term may mean or whatever you think it means, is incapable of emerging from any lower level functioning area of the brain. Or if you prefer Freudian terms, love can only spring from the Ego. I disagree.

I think the main problem with this discussion, other than the sophomoric glee people are extracting from their feelings of supposed superiority to others, is that the word love is by far the most overly used word in the English language. Do I think a snake is capable of love like romantic love? Of course not. Do I think a snake is capable of love like the love that The Christ or The Buddha had for the world? Absolutely not. Do I even think that a snake can feel empathy? Again, no. But can a snake feel safe, secure, emboldened, and not threatened by another being living in close proximity to it? Yes, I do. And those feelings are some of the feelings that I ascribe to the word love.

The idea of love encompasses many things. To extract love of all but its logical and emotional elements is to diminish it.

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Agree^^

my snakes love me. i dont care what people say, i can believe what i want :D

i know this is an old thread. i also know the question is about snakes but i had a snapping turtle, well actually hatched a snapping turtle. he would only let me hold him. and when i did he would ram his face into my hand (mouth closed of course). it really appeared that he was making sure it was me. when he confirmed it was me he would literally go limp and just relax.

i know what science tells us and i wont argue that but i do believe that sometimes there is something more. i mean some species of snakes care for their eggs and, dont quote me on this, but i think all crocadilians guard thier nests? i know its a propagation of the species instinct but i still think there is something going on that cant be explained by science.

I do not think my snakes love me but I do know my first ball, a pastel female, definately knows when I am home or not. Any time I come home from work or shopping or whatever she comes halfway out of her hide, lifts up her head pretty far, I talk to her and then she goes away. She doesn't do that for my husband. I also know I am the only one that feeds her soooo.......:P

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Originally Posted by littlered

my snakes love me. i dont care what people say, i can believe what i want :D

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lol if you're going to state an opinion this is the way to do it hahaha. no room for questioning there.


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When my big female macklotts DOESN'T try to bite me on the face....
I guess that could count as love.....:P

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Originally Posted by Egapal

No.



Why is the fact that something is alive necessarily lead to it being capable of love? Your logic is severely flawed. Do trees love? Trees are alive. The question is does a snake have the parts of the brain where love reside. I would say no based on my understanding of the reptile brain.
!


I actually believe that humans are nothing more than animals with complex brains that extrapolate greater meaning from the behaviors driven by instincts and guided by our brains. I don't see anything wrong with that belief.




I don't believe in any gods and I don't accept that all animals are capable of love so I would say that "must believe" is a bit of a stretch. Perhaps you should think about the implications of your words before you voice them. Not believing in a God or gods tells us 1 and only one thing about a person. They do not believe in a God or gods. Atheists hold a wide range of beliefs that are widely different and, once again, only one necessarily in common. Don't lump Atheists together. Its as ignorant as lumping Christians or any other theists together.

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Trees love photosynthesis because they need it
To live, jk

But for the sake of the argument, does it really matter if someone wants to believe there snake loves them or not, besides, to all no snake people we are all crazy anyways!!

I think this should only be for people with a few snakes instead of breeders with 20+ that never get played with.

my snake loves me.it rips its prey in half and offers me the other half then cuddles with me.
thats love:snake::D

Love...? I don't know..
Are they mindless eating machines, I don't think so, they have traits that show on some level an individual personality.

Are they social, I don't know, but my 2 bp's are in individual vivs sitting right next to each other. There was one time I took my female to the vet to get checked out, she was gone for 7 hours, in that time my pastel trashed his tank, flipping his hides and getting rub marks on his nose. This was the only time he did ever did this.. So did he stress because she was gone? I don't know but something set him off and he has not done it since.

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Originally Posted by Shaun J

Well, its not an opinion. Its a fact that snakes can't love or hate.

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how would you know? are you a snake? nope, didnt think so.

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Originally Posted by Mariah Leigh Mills

how would you know? are you a snake? nope, didnt think so.

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According to the Chinese calendar I am..... ;)

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Originally Posted by Foschi Exotic Serpents

According to the Chinese calendar I am..... ;)

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:gj::gj::gj::gj::gj:

I didn't vote because I don't believe either. I don't think my snake "loves" me, per say, even affection is pushing it, but I do not believe that snakes cannot feel emotion. Snakes can be happy, angry, excited, etc, and every keeper knows they have moods. But I don't believe snakes can "love" their keepers, at least not in the way we do. Build trust that only applies to one individual, yes. But not "love".

EDIT: Apparently the poll says I did vote. But this is my new opinion.

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Originally Posted by SpartaDog

EDIT: Apparently the poll says I did vote. But this is my new opinion.

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awesome lol


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im not gonna go as far as to say that she loves me, but I do think she recognizes me, and is kinda friendly towards me. Why do I think so? I have a neighbor (who NOBODY stands) that everytime he goes real near to my BP she balls up immediately and if he tries to pick her up she WILL hiss, I'm not kidding, I now refuse to let him near her at any time. Another thing I use to 'back up my theory' is that she RARELY (Almost never) balls up when I grab her, whilst she regularly balls up in everybody's hand.

i voted that i know my snake doesnt love, nor can he, but at least he's nice enough to deal with me and let me take him out and mess with him whenever i want:D

I dont think that snakes are capable of love but on the flip side I think they're capable of understanding that we aren't a threat, and some form of coexistence is formed. I know one thing though, my snake loves to have her chin rubbed, and she will sit there for a few minutes while you rub right under her jaw. :rolleyes:

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Originally Posted by cmack91

i voted that i know my snake doesnt love, nor can he, but at least he's nice enough to deal with me and let me take him out and mess with him whenever i want:D

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This ^^ :P I think you would be surprised. There is a lot of coexistence in the wild with many different animals, many types of animals will graze and chill in the same area because they know they are not a harm to each other. Sometimes, in the wild, there is one dominant predator that everyone is scared of, and I guess this unites all the other animals..

That's the way I look at my snakes and me. Although snakes may not LIKE it when we take them out and play with them, I think they can also definitely grow accustomed to your touch, to your habits, to your way of handling them, to the point where they recognize somebody who isnt you and is nervous, versus you. Snakes can learn to co-exist too, and when there are no visible predators for years and years of their lives, I think they can "settle" in a bit and get much more comfortable than they were when you first got them. And they will grow to realize after many handling sessions that they always get to go back in their comfy little cage.

If we all know and it is a fact and has been proven by science that snakes are instinctual creatures and can not in fact feel or show emotion, then why is this poll almost 50/50?

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Originally Posted by mattchibi

This ^^ :P I think you would be surprised. There is a lot of coexistence in the wild with many different animals, many types of animals will graze and chill in the same area because they know they are not a harm to each other. Sometimes, in the wild, there is one dominant predator that everyone is scared of, and I guess this unites all the other animals..

That's the way I look at my snakes and me. Although snakes may not LIKE it when we take them out and play with them, I think they can also definitely grow accustomed to your touch, to your habits, to your way of handling them, to the point where they recognize somebody who isnt you and is nervous, versus you. Snakes can learn to co-exist too, and when there are no visible predators for years and years of their lives, I think they can "settle" in a bit and get much more comfortable than they were when you first got them. And they will grow to realize after many handling sessions that they always get to go back in their comfy little cage.

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^ This, I completely agree with this. Well said Matt. While I don't believe that snakes can feel or show emotion, they are instinctual creatures and are incapable of this. However I do believe that a snake can trust you, not in the same way as we can trust another person but in their own way. Because they are instinctual, I believe they can learn to associate your scent with food, heat, and a warm place to live.

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Originally Posted by evan385

If we all know and it is a fact and has been proven by science that snakes are instinctual creatures and can not in fact feel or show emotion, then why is this poll almost 50/50?

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because they can!! They are alive, just ask them..:P

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Originally Posted by JeffD

because they can!! They are alive, just ask them..:P

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Yeah just like my scorpions can! Just because they are alive! They love me to pieces! That little stinger and those claws are all about the LOVE! :p

I don't think snakes feel emotions. I think they can become comfortable with certain people based on mutual respect but other than that...

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Originally Posted by cassandra

*high-fives Gin!*

I have my revenge tho...Cleo peed on her Daddy *and* his favorite chair (Rick's lazyboy) last night - muwhahahhaha!

Someone seriously needs to come up with snake diapers. :sweeet:

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My true sd retic wouldn't poop for weeks but the second I'd take her out she would pinch one off on me lmao. I used to curse about it every time but since she's passed I kinda miss the clean ups.


Now as for my snakes loving me not love per say as a cat or dogshow it but my baby pastel ball lifts her head like a cat when I scratch her chin. Lizards I'm not sure but I think they are a lot more affectionate then snakes. Just my opinion :p

My snakes only love me for as long as I have a rat in my hand, and sometimes not even then.

If I may challange your free thinking minds for a moment. What do we really know about the way a snake feels or thinks? We have studies we can quote but how accurate are they? Let's imagine that the best study shows brain waves telling us that snakes have limited thought patterns in relation to specific stimuli. Okay, that's great but what if someone came up with a machine that would interpret what a snake is really thinking? Don't laugh to loudly, remember that at one time people thought the world was flat. Why did they think that? Because the information they had, at the time, supported that perception. It wasn't until a free thinking person went beyond the horizon that we learned the truth.

I believe that "FACT" can be changed as new information is presented and history shows us that even the most proovable theories are changable as with the egg. Twenty years ago we were told to only eat the white of the egg because the yoke contained harmful colesterol. Well now we know that the egg is the only complete protien in our food system and that places a different light on it all together.

Do snakes love? I don't think that question can be answered right now unless someone comes up with a way to become a snake and communicate what it's feeling. But.... The possibilities are intriguing.

My snakes don't give a crap about me, lol.

That being said, I think they have learning capabilities...though I'd lean towards that not being a result of cognition as much as impression. Not at all saying you can train a snake, but they definitely can be conditioned. I also think they can differentiate between people, based on my own personal experience.

I didn't vote because I feel both are false.

My cat loves me (sometimes), my snake does not. I don't think she loves me, nor do I think she misses me when I leave. But I don't think she without emotion or without an understanding of my existence as a neutral force in her world. I'm not a threat to her, but nor am I edible. I am a fixture of her environment, and if she is an exploratory mood, I am interesting. If she is a cranky or lazy mood, then I am annoying. Simple as that.

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Originally Posted by Emily Hubbard

I didn't vote because I feel both are false.

My cat loves me (sometimes), my snake does not. I don't think she loves me, nor do I think she misses me when I leave. But I don't think she without emotion or without an understanding of my existence as a neutral force in her world. I'm not a threat to her, but nor am I edible. I am a fixture of her environment, and if she is an exploratory mood, I am interesting. If she is a cranky or lazy mood, then I am annoying. Simple as that.

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How can you prove a cat loves? How can you prove a BP loves? how can you prove ANYTHING loves? We can quote anything we want.. In the end, it's worthless... We're not cats, dogs or even Elephants. We can say all this scientific stuff we want.. But we can't really prove it.. What we need is a mind reader for animals. :P

In my opinion, snakes do not 'love'. Love is a human emotion. We as humans tend to anthropomorphasize animals. We treat them as if they are human even though they are not.
However, Animals may exhibit affection or a similar raw behavior. Animals may have their own version of what we call 'love', but it should not be categorized in the same level as a human as they are not humans....

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I think my snakes tolerate me.

i know facts but i disagree even with the facts. my ball Bella won't go to anyone other the my boyfriend and I. If someone else picks her up she balls up and won't move. If we pick her up she roams freely up and down are arms and around our hands.

I voted "my snake loves me" even though I don't really believe this :P

I can't speculate on whether or not snakes feel emotion. But I do know my snake seems to "know" me and tolerate me over others: he accepts me handling him easily but is very fearful of strangers and quickly flees. Either he recognizes that I am familiar and probably harmless, or there's some quality I have (smaller hands? moves slower?) that scares him less. And that's good enough for me! :D

I'm just curious. What studies have been done to determine how a snake thinks? I mean it's pretty obvious that the general oppinion is that snakes have no emotion and yet "fear" can be considered an emotion. I would really like to read doccumentation if anyone knows of a study that has been done and can show the basis for this belief. I'm not trying to be sarcastic I would really like to know.

well, i know they don't feel love or hate but i do believe they recognized things...cause my ball python acts completely different with different people. it could just be my smell. but i cant say it wants or shows affection cause that is impossible but as i said before, i think they can recognize certain people if they see them almost everyday lol i don't think they think "i want to eat you" to everything. maybe if i smelt like rat or something, cause thats all my python has ever known it can eat.

It's kind if scary how many of you believe your snake(s) loves you...

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Originally Posted by ballbuster

It's kind if scary how many of you believe your snake(s) loves you...

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I was thinking the same. But to each their own!! ;)

Seeing as not too long ago, many people believed (and most still do) that pigs are unintelligent animals... I am inclined to lean towards the: "My snake has emotions, in her own snakey way."

Not long ago people thought Pigs were dumb. Now, after various studies, did you know that the common pig is actually more intelligent than dolphins and apes?

They put a dot of paint on the forehead of various elephants in captivity. The elephants were then shown a mirror for the first time. Instantly they would reach up and touch the dot on their forehead, showing that they had instant self recognition.

Yet, people still don't believe these animals are capable of that kind of unique thought process. Some people still don't believe that dolphins are intelligent or capable of thoughts and unique emotions.

I understand it. Everybody has their own set of experiences and opinions of how the world works, and those within it.

Do I think my snake loves me? No. Do I think she can show her own kind of snakey emotion in certain circumstances? Yes. The same way my cat can show times of super affection, then fierce independence.

We're always learning, and we're always discovering new things about the world. To say that animals don't feel emotions because they don't express them like we do, have the same size brain or brain activity as us doesn't mean that they lack these 'emotions'. It just means that we aren't at a point where we can determine 100% "YES" or "NO".

People still argue that fish can't feel pain, because they don't 'outwardly exprses it like we do'. So, that means an animal must behave like us in order to share traits that we also possess? That seems just a bit silly to me ;)

Nah. I don't think my animals 'love me' in the same way I love my boyfriend or I love them, but that isn't to say they don't recognize me as different from 'strangers'. And that shows some type of ability to differentiate between something familiar and something foreign. If that comes across as 'My snake likes me', then that's just my way of putting to words that my animal doesn't feel the need to completely freak out when I'm near him. Is that love? Some people could call it that. I don't freak out when my boyfriend hugs me, but I do freak out when a stranger does.

I guess it's a fun topic and some lovely grey areas that keep this interesting! As long as my snake doesn't bite me every time I pick her up, I'll take that as 'snakey affection'. Even if all that 'snake affection' means is that she doesn't treat me like I'm going to kill her. That's a win in my book.

I completely agree with Vasiliki ^

Chickens have also been proven to be on par with dogs & cats, and have actually been compared to primates as well (with brainpower). Most people just think of them as the 'stupid' birds that are always on the dinner table :colbert: Just another one of those unexpectedly smart animals.

But my snakes probably just recognize me as the one who brings food and doesn't cause them harm.;)

No I don't think he loves me, but I definitely notice that if someone else holds him he finds his way back to me and then settles down. I feel like its more that "ahhh this big warm thing I don't know is holding me it might eat me, let me go find that other warm thing that I KNOW won't eat me" than actual emotion on his part :P

In the same way that it is tempting to put all our deep emotions on our snakes, its also tempting to hold steadfastly to the opposite ("snakes have not emotions/feelings/cannot recognize their owners"). Both of these are incorrect, if they are held to in the face of observation and evidence; we learn new things every day about how the world works. The fact is, it has happened consistently over time, so to disregard my real world observations would be JUST as silly and wrong as me going "my snake loves me and adores me and loves cuddling." The best conclusion I can make, based on observation, is that some part of him does recognize me and is able to locate me among other humans and seek me out, and on some level feels safer with me than other people. I can't make any assumptions about if he "loves" me, but then again I can't really even say that about any pets I own. I just don't know! But I still love them <3

I saw someone post somewhere on here, but I can't find it, that "proof" that snakes dont recognize their owners at all and can't process thought was that sometimes people can get killed by their large pythons (and "did they just 'forget' who their owner was?"). My problem with this is that large cats are generally agreed to be intelligent, emotive creatures, yet occasionally you hear stories about zoo keepers or large cat owners being killed by their animal. But no one uses these cases to argue that cats are incapable of recognizing people, but rather its just a case of instinct trumps all (which is the same, but stronger, with snakes).

I'm a new snake owner, but my whole life I've had an amateur interest in biology and science. I know that no matter how many books or articles I read, that doesn't make me an expert, but I do still try and be informed. And thats really the best I can do!

Does my snake love me... No. .Does he recognie me and prefer me...yes

Whenever my husnand and i have gypsy out he always ends up coming to me it never fails. We let him on the bed and he always ends up climbing up me and sleeping on my shoulder. Also i know its not because im warmer my husbands,body temp is is at least 4 degrees warmer then me.