Leonardo is sick, swelling/bleeding...

I just read through this whole thread. It was educational and sad. :/ I'm sorry for your loss, I know how it feels to lose a pet. Praying you're getting through okay, and good on you for making the tough decision to end his suffering. I hope his ladyfriend is gravid and you get a baby boy enchi. <3

So sorry for your loss!

Leo was a very brave little guy. He had a wonderful home with an owner who wasn't afraid to make the right decision and let him go. Hopefully his experience will help snakes and their owners in the future.

I'm so sorry for your loss.

just wanted to thank you for taking the time to take quality photographs/video to document. my snake had a similarly swollen head/mouth and your pictures helped me to rule out and diagnose what the problem was. so sorry for you loss.

Tiffany - I'm soooo sorry to read this today. I don't know how I missed it when you first posted it. Leonardo was an amazing animal - and my heart breaks for you in your loss. I'm glad he was able to serve others in his necropsy. (((Hugs)))

Interesting thread, I have seen similar things a few different times over the years. Sorry for your loss.

Tiffany, I am sorry I'm a little late finding this, but my heart goes out to you in the terrible, wonderful decision you had to make.

Choosing to end the life of a cherished pet is never an easy decision to make. Your heart pulls you one way, your head pulls you another. The endless what if's, could I have's and did I do the right things don't make the choice any easier to live with. And the well wishes and expressions of sympathy that come are nice, but they don't change the fact that your dear friend is gone and won't come back.

So you give a deep sigh, wipe your eyes and try to remember why you did what you did. Yes, you tried everything you could during his illness, there is nothing you could have done differently that would have changed the outcome. In fact, by going the extra mile for him, the outcome was better than it could have been. And more than that, your unselfish decision to allow the vet to study and try to find out what went wrong is a wonderful gift. A gift from you and your beloved baby. Because of your willingness to give that gift, perhaps someone else will be spared what you went through. Of course, that doesn't keep you from feeling the way you do right now, but someday you will be able to look back on your great gift and be proud of giving it.

I also hope with all my heart that he did indeed leave you with his greatest gift before he parted this life, and that you will find solace in his offspring. The children can never take the place of their parents, but it is still a little miracle to have a piece of them with you in the little ones you watch grow.

I wish you all the best.

Gale

I am very sorry to hear how this turned out. I really thought with how quickly the swelling would come and go, that it had to be air under the skin. Did your vet give any insight into how the tumor caused such drastic changes in swelling? Bleeding internally? Did you submit the tumor for histopathology to find out what kind of tumor it is? It is unusual to see cancer in such a young snake. Although now that I say that, the only other heart based tumor I have ever personally seen was in a 4 year old kingsnake.

One last thought... you may want to reconsider keeping and breeding offspring from this snake. I recognize that he was a beloved animal and it is tempting to keep that memory alive via his bloodline. However he also had a very strange cancer and there is no way to know if his offspring might be predisposed to a similar condition.

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Originally Posted by zwhitman

One last thought... you may want to reconsider keeping and breeding offspring from this snake. I recognize that he was a beloved animal and it is tempting to keep that memory alive via his bloodline. However he also had a very strange cancer and there is no way to know if his offspring might be predisposed to a similar condition.

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The (one?) female he was bred to is gravid. She's already said she is going to keep all the offspring and watch for signs of the same thing happening. I can't imagine Rosey would ever sell a snake that she thought there might be a chance of it developing cancer later in life due to a genetic defect, especially after losing her own in such a way. Leonardo was an amazing animal and what would you have her do? Throw out a clutch of eggs produced by an amazing, favored snake just because there's a chance the offspring might have the same issue? If they do, then none of those offspring will be bred and that will be the end of that. If not, then she's got babies of a snake that was lost due to cancer and while it won't be able to ever make up the difference, at least she may have a baby she can look at and go 'yeah, that's him'.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by zwhitman

I am very sorry to hear how this turned out. I really thought with how quickly the swelling would come and go, that it had to be air under the skin. Did your vet give any insight into how the tumor caused such drastic changes in swelling? Bleeding internally? Did you submit the tumor for histopathology to find out what kind of tumor it is? It is unusual to see cancer in such a young snake. Although now that I say that, the only other heart based tumor I have ever personally seen was in a 4 year old kingsnake.

One last thought... you may want to reconsider keeping and breeding offspring from this snake. I recognize that he was a beloved animal and it is tempting to keep that memory alive via his bloodline. However he also had a very strange cancer and there is no way to know if his offspring might be predisposed to a similar condition.

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The swelling was in fact blood, as every time I examined his mouth while swollen, there would be hemorrhaging/bleeding, yet when he was not swollen, there was no sign of blood coming out of his mouth. I did not submit the tumor personally for any testing, he (vet) mentioned the probable type, but I cannot remember it now. I cannot say whether he did more testing or not, as I gave him permission to do as he wished with Leo after the euthanasia.

As for your second suggestion, while I appreciate the the concern, we have thought of this. None of his offspring (if we get any) will be sold until after their first birthday (assuming they do not show any growths) and will be sold with full information of Leo's medical history. If we happen to get another "Leo", he will be tested regularly to see if any growths are present prior to breeding, and will not be bred until after his second birthday. The breeder we purchased Leo from said he has never seen anything like this, from either parent, past clutches, or from his clutch mates. That of course does not guarantee it is not genetic, but we can hope.