Quality of breeding stock

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Originally Posted by jinx667

One of my bigger points that I think got lost in the "quality" debate is this: if the snake does not blow you away or "wow" you, why breed it? Whatever it is that you find pleasing aesthetically, you should find that in your breeding stock. I think despite what any of us feel about standards, we can all agree on that.

For the vast majority of my purchased animals, when I see them I say "I have to have that snake" before even looking at price. Now I have said that a lot on snakes I cannot afford, and therefore do not have them. But the ones I DO have, pass that test. If everyone shopped for their breeding stock in this manner, no matter what the trait is that floats your boat, I think we would be moving in the right direction. In other words, find and make the best darn brown Pastels you can make.

If you are just putting a couple of genes together because you think they might sell, put down your paintbrush and go home. Find something that you are actually passionate about and leave the snake breeding to the rest of us. (Not directed at any specific person, but the point is universal.)

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I think that you are correct about an animal should "Wow"you if you are buying it for breeding. And I am in awe of some of the beautiful snakes that I see on this forum and in breeder's collections. But I just want people to consider that quality, especially when it is only associated with appearance, is subjective. I just feel that sometimes the chest pounding gets to be a bit much, which is why I posted as I had originally in this thread.

Also, because there is one other type of breeder here that I don't feel many consider. It is the kid, dad, mom, whatever, that goes to a reptile show or petco and falls in love with a snake. They buy it because they are genuinely excited by the animal and have to have it. The next thing that happens is they start looking for information so they can give their pet the best possible care, and in doing so they stumble across this site. How can you read this site for any length of time and not think about breeding a ball python? Now a whole new world opens up to them that hadn't even considered and because of this community they wish to take the next step and breed their baby. It isn't for money, but the experience of the whole natural process. If they are successful, the excitement and sense of accomplishment is awesome. And to that first time breeder, there isn't a low quality snake in the bunch. They are all beautiful, healthy, and made from scratch. And if they decide to sell them, why shouldn't they try to get the most they can, a price that relects the value (pride) they feel about the babies? Now that may cut into some bottom lines, or dilute some stock, but so beit.

The market will dictate the price in the end, but I don't feel these individuals should be made to feel bad for breeding or told their animals are "Low Qaulity". They are not in it to make a fast buck. They are in it for all of the right reasons. They are simply working with what they have. And what they have is what they bought before anyone skewed their opinion and told them there was a difference. And it is very likely it did make them go "Wow'. These people are not bad for the hobby. On the contrary they are the ones who help sustain it.

Again this is just my $0.02 (opinion), as subjective as that may be. And jinx please don't think I am picking on you because I am replying to your comment again. It is just that it is relevant to my point.

in the BP world, there certainly are examples of crappy looking snakes producing high quality snakes.

if i get into breeding, i will defintively work with mystic/phantom and mojave and will go for mystic potion and varieties of that.

now two things i would want to get my hands on would be super mystic and super mojave. Super mojave is a blue-eye leucystic, but the head is grey, the neck is greyish/white, and the rest of the body is off-white. Compared to a super russo, its just NOT a good blue-eye lucy. Its about the dirtiest BEL you can get that you can still call a true blue eye leucystic. And the super mystic / super phantom... well, compared to mystic potions it looks quite crappy. Its still important what regular mystics and regular mojaves you choose to start with or to add fresh genes. But if you are willing to pay 1.5 times the regular price, that can totally be enough and gives you a variety to choose from. In the end, its about having the supers to produce clutches that are 100% mystic potions, thats a distant dream of mine.

If someone buys a pet quality animal, then gets the bug to breed after coming here, they do not HAVE to breed that particular animal. Will not diminish it's value as a pet.

Ex. You are a newbie who gets that browned out Bee because you think is it awesome to have a BP. That is great! Now you want to start a breeding project, lets say you want to make more Bees. You can then give your original Bee a good spot in your rack that you just bought, and THEN, armed with the knowledge you got here and a better eye for what you like/quality, go out into the world and find that perfect Spider and awesome Pastel, then make the best darn Bees you can. The original Bee is still awesome and holds a place in your heart, just not in your breeding program.

Also, how personal someone takes my ideas and "feels bad" is in the end up to them. If they are striving to move our hobby forward and breed for the traits they like, not just because it has a particular gene, then they are A-OK in my book. IMO in the end, they will get better prices for their offspring and have a easier time finding them new homes.